Problem with old employer

marcus430

Hi, hope this is the right forum for this...

Basically I have a problem with an ex employer, it's a bit long winded but the facts are:

• Throughout my employment I have been hounded and hasseled by the managers, constant phone calls when on annual leave, comments like "turn your monitor around right now" so they would see what I was looking at. Phone calls when on clients site saying "am I done yet" even though I was talking to clients. I even had them question whether I was ill once despite having a doctors note and a written letter from the doctor stating that I must not work for 3 days because of certain medication.
• When joining the company the job description was to manage clients servers and document management procedures. When I completed my probationary period they then kept sending me out to fix industrial photocopiers - despite me having no training. I was told it was cheaper to get me to do it (as I was on a salary) than to keep paying the engineers £75 a call out.
• On many days, perhaps 3/5 days I came in early (because I had to get projects sorted) or worked late (when last minute problems arose). Never once did I ask for, or was offered, extra money or time off to reimburse me.
• Sometimes working late meant working through the nite, often travelling to client locations.
• I had nothing but great feedback and praise from all clients, this was also sent in writing to my ex-employer. I hadn't done anything to warrant this verbal harrassment and abuse.
• After almost 6 months of verbal hassling and abuse I Resigned of my own accord and said in the letter I did not wish to discuss my reasons for leaving (as I did not want to make a scene or an issue over it) but would work my 30days notice
• 2 days into my 30 days notice I'm told I have to go to a clients site which will cost me £60 (which I would put on expenses) and require me to work from 7am to 9pm (when my normal hours are 9-5). I agree no problem.
• I'm scheduled to go to clients side 4 days before my employment ends.
• I then receive a letter from the company accountant stating that I must submit all final expense claims 10 days before my employment ends, and any expense claims after that would not be paid.
• I take this letter to the Managing Director in a meeting who says thats the case and their companies policy. I tell him I won't be going to the clients site if I'm not to be reinbursed for my expense.
• A discussion then takes place in this meeting about how they are unhappy I have just decided to leave and not give them a reason.
• I tell them that despite being their IT manager, I have had no trust or respect since joining the company, and have therefore decided to leave.
• The managing director then says if I feel like that to just get out now then. I tell him I'm happy to work my notice but will not be out of pocket for doing so.
• He again tells me I'm to leave now, that he has a business to run and doesn't want me on the premeses anymore
• I tell him fine but I need to wipe all my personal data of the laptop.
• He says no and that I must leave now.
• I go back to my desk and execute a delete all command to all my personal data. All data is deleted. Note - I was allowed to take this laptop home and therefore it held personal data.
• The managing director realises what I have done and slams the laptop lid down and in the same motion pushes it into my chest. He then tells me that "I look scared"
• I tell him I'm not scared of him at all, just protecting my personal data that contains financial information.
• I then leave, he doesn't follow me off the property.

Thats the statement of events for me leaving. However the problems then really begin.

• I'm paid all correct salary and final expenses once I returned the phone and office keys. I think thats the end of the matter.
• Then about 2 months later I get an email alert from my data backup & sync program telling me all my data has been restored on their company laptop, and is now being edited and viewed by them.
• I know this is definately my ex-employer as I created a new account for all my data after leaving my employer.
• I have a log of what they have done, generated by the software program - and that it all occured on their laptop and their fixed IP address.

The big questions are...

• Even though I resigned, should I file for constructive dismissal due to all the problems I had, and the job not meeting the job description? All of the working early and late practically ruined my social life and almost my relationship.
• What should I do about them restoring my data and looking at all my files (especially my financial files). I have proof they have done this.

There is more and the plot thickens....

• I know for a fact all the directors have their wives on the payroll, but their wives do not do any form of work for the company. It is so they can reduce their tax bill
• I have been in many internal meetings where the directors have discussed about how best to screw the clients for money
• The company receive a lot of money via cheque, and they pay this into the managing directors personal account offshore to avoid tax.

I know someone has reported them to the HMRC for tax fraud before, should I do the same or what should I do?

Thanks for reading.....

unhappy_with_ecar

I would ring ACAS, they offer free advice to people about employment and they would be able to give you a good idea of your rights and whether you have any kind of claim. If you do then it may be worth consulting a solicitor, many will work on a conditional fee basis for work such as this.

First of all though, sit down and have a think as to what it is you really want. Clearly you're upset as to what has happened - but work out what you want to achieve before you start. Having a clear goal in mind will keep you more focussed on the task.

marcus430

unhappy_with_ecar wrote: »

I would ring ACAS, they offer free advice to people about employment and they would be able to give you a good idea of your rights and whether you have any kind of claim. If you do then it may be worth consulting a solicitor, many will work on a conditional fee basis for work such as this.

First of all though, sit down and have a think as to what it is you really want. Clearly you're upset as to what has happened - but work out what you want to achieve before you start. Having a clear goal in mind will keep you more focussed on the task.

I wasn't upset when I resigned, in fact quite the opposite as I felt releived - especially as I had something else to go to....

But now I am angry yes that they are accessing my personal data....and I want to do something about it.

I will ring ACAS thank you

SarEl

From the sounds of it you had less than 12 months employment, and if so you cannot file for any form of construictive or unfair dismissal. However, given the circumstances you describe, I wouldn't hold my breath on constrcutive dismissal under any circumstances - it is the hardest type of claim to make, less than 3% of claimants win, and you simply don't have sufficient evidence to win a case.

Whether or not you go on to report an alleged tax fraud is up to you.

However, one point to bear in mind is whether or not this could get even nastier - just because you are no longer in their employment does not mean you are untouchable. I should point out that there are some questions about your earlier comments that are worth bearing in mind. Simply because you are given a company lap top and allowed to take it home is not the same as having permission to make personal use of it. But how do you actually know that they have restored the data on the company server that you deleted (against instructions I might point out) and are using it - unless you are "in their company computers" when you have no authority to be there? I'm no computer expert, but this sounds decidely dodgy and if it is, and you are found out, you could be in very serious trouble.

marcus430

SarEl wrote: »

From the sounds of it you had less than 12 months employment, and if so you cannot file for any form of construictive or unfair dismissal. However, given the circumstances you describe, I wouldn't hold my breath on constrcutive dismissal under any circumstances - it is the hardest type of claim to make, less than 3% of claimants win, and you simply don't have sufficient evidence to win a case.

Whether or not you go on to report an alleged tax fraud is up to you.

However, one point to bear in mind is whether or not this could get even nastier - just because you are no longer in their employment does not mean you are untouchable. I should point out that there are some questions about your earlier comments that are worth bearing in mind. Simply because you are given a company lap top and allowed to take it home is not the same as having permission to make personal use of it. But how do you actually know that they have restored the data on the company server that you deleted (against instructions I might point out) and are using it - unless you are "in their company computers" when you have no authority to be there? I'm no computer expert, but this sounds decidely dodgy and if it is, and you are found out, you could be in very serious trouble.

I accept the point that perhaps my personal data shouldn't have been there - but when your all over the country with just one access to a computer I needed to access my files. I also accept the point about not deleting my data - but wouldn't you if you had personal information on it??

The data was never on a server, just on a local laptop that had no access to any kind of other computer.

I found out my data was restored from a program that was installed on the laptop that communicates with another website to tell me what has been added / deleted / viewed / changed - when it happened and by whom.

It's not accessing their computers at all, in fact it's the program on the laptop accessing a central website that I then have access too. Just a reporting website.

If I reported them for all of this - what could they honestly do?

teabelly

Let me get this straight. You have installed software on this company laptop which tells you (you no longer work there) what data is being accessed on it? The fact it is a reporting site is irrelevant. What they use their property for is none of your business. If you're an IT manager why would you even be using the laptop for personal use? Was it not well paid enough to spend a few hundred quid on you're own one? If you were using it for personal use why on earth would you save private financial data on it? You could easily have saved this data onto a usb stick.

DVardysShadow

marcus430 wrote: »

There is more and the plot thickens....

• I know for a fact all the directors have their wives on the payroll, but their wives do not do any form of work for the company. It is so they can reduce their tax bill
• I have been in many internal meetings where the directors have discussed about how best to screw the clients for money
• The company receive a lot of money via cheque, and they pay this into the managing directors personal account offshore to avoid tax.

I know someone has reported them to the HMRC for tax fraud before, should I do the same or what should I do?

If you were not upset by this when you worked there, you should stay well out of it now. You do yourself no favours by descending to their level.

Your only outstanding problem is that they have recreated your data. As an IT Manager, you should know the legislation which covers that. I think that your biggest problem now is that they are likely to come after you with an accusation that you left trojans, spyware, keyloggers, backdoors or whatever on thecompany systems. It does not matter that you did not actually do this, you actually had something on your system to meet your personal needs for your own data - if they have seen the activity, you need to be able to defend yourself.

Judas

marcus430 wrote: »

Hi, hope this is the right forum for this...

Basically I have a problem with an ex employer, it's a bit long winded but the facts are:

• Throughout my employment I have been hounded and hasseled by the managers, constant phone calls when on annual leave, comments like "turn your monitor around right now" so they would see what I was looking at. Phone calls when on clients site saying "am I done yet" even though I was talking to clients. I even had them question whether I was ill once despite having a doctors note and a written letter from the doctor stating that I must not work for 3 days because of certain medication.

Don't see the problem with the first two. Managers need to ensure staff are doing what they are meant to be and as long as its done properly then fair enough. The third one isnt the best but I dont see any reason for complaint if they accepted your explanation.

• When joining the company the job description was to manage clients servers and document management procedures. When I completed my probationary period they then kept sending me out to fix industrial photocopiers - despite me having no training. I was told it was cheaper to get me to do it (as I was on a salary) than to keep paying the engineers £75 a call out.

It almost certainly said any other task too. I don't think having a look at a photocopier is outwith an IT job.

• On many days, perhaps 3/5 days I came in early (because I had to get projects sorted) or worked late (when last minute problems arose). Never once did I ask for, or was offered, extra money or time off to reimburse me.

This comes with responsibility.

• Sometimes working late meant working through the nite, often travelling to client locations.

Again pretty common for IT jobs

• I had nothing but great feedback and praise from all clients, this was also sent in writing to my ex-employer. I hadn't done anything to warrant this verbal harrassment and abuse.

What verbal harassment or abuse? I don't think the above counts as such therefore unless you have other examples I think this is an invalid complaint.

• After almost 6 months of verbal hassling and abuse I Resigned of my own accord and said in the letter I did not wish to discuss my reasons for leaving (as I did not want to make a scene or an issue over it) but would work my 30days notice

Your choice but it probably made things worse.

• 2 days into my 30 days notice I'm told I have to go to a clients site which will cost me £60 (which I would put on expenses) and require me to work from 7am to 9pm (when my normal hours are 9-5). I agree no problem.

Again part of the job

• I'm scheduled to go to clients side 4 days before my employment ends.
• I then receive a letter from the company accountant stating that I must submit all final expense claims 10 days before my employment ends, and any expense claims after that would not be paid.
• I take this letter to the Managing Director in a meeting who says thats the case and their companies policy. I tell him I won't be going to the clients site if I'm not to be reinbursed for my expense.

Did you ask them to book the costs for you or to put your expenses in for this in advance?

• A discussion then takes place in this meeting about how they are unhappy I have just decided to leave and not give them a reason.
• I tell them that despite being their IT manager, I have had no trust or respect since joining the company, and have therefore decided to leave.

I'm afraid based on your thread I don't think this is valid. Ensuring staff are doing their job isnt a lack of trust or respect; its just part of modern business due to the amount of scam artists.

• The managing director then says if I feel like that to just get out now then. I tell him I'm happy to work my notice but will not be out of pocket for doing so.
• He again tells me I'm to leave now, that he has a business to run and doesn't want me on the premeses anymore

I'm afraid I can see his point of view as your presence was clearly going to cause more problems than it solved.

• I tell him fine but I need to wipe all my personal data of the laptop.

Why was personal data on this laptop? Did the IT policy allow for this?

• He says no and that I must leave now.
• I go back to my desk and execute a delete all command to all my personal data. All data is deleted. Note - I was allowed to take this laptop home and therefore it held personal data.
• The managing director realises what I have done and slams the laptop lid down and in the same motion pushes it into my chest. He then tells me that "I look scared"

His choice. I certainly wouldn't be happy if a staff member was insistent they had to wipe a company laptop and would not allow them to. This sort of thing indicates fraud or other criminal activity. I would want it checked then cleared properly by IT staff. I don't think you should have had data on it in the first place if you were worried about its security.

• I tell him I'm not scared of him at all, just protecting my personal data that contains financial information.
• I then leave, he doesn't follow me off the property.

Thats the statement of events for me leaving. However the problems then really begin.

• I'm paid all correct salary and final expenses once I returned the phone and office keys. I think thats the end of the matter.
• Then about 2 months later I get an email alert from my data backup & sync program telling me all my data has been restored on their company laptop, and is now being edited and viewed by them.
• I know this is definately my ex-employer as I created a new account for all my data after leaving my employer.
• I have a log of what they have done, generated by the software program - and that it all occured on their laptop and their fixed IP address.

Do you have permission to put this sort of software on the computers? Or did you install dodgy software you shouldnt have. Personally I think you were using company property in ways you shouldnt have. Furthermore I am not surprised they checked it after you creating a fuss. I certainly would have. The timeframe is probably simply because he put it away until his new IT manager started.


The big questions are...

• Even though I resigned, should I file for constructive dismissal due to all the problems I had, and the job not meeting the job description? All of the working early and late practically ruined my social life and almost my relationship.

On what grounds? Nothing you have posted suggests the work you did was outwith the job and you should have done something about the social life if it was a problem. You cant complain about something you gave them no opportunity to fix. I also would suggest if you dont like unsociable hours to find a new career.

• What should I do about them restoring my data and looking at all my files (especially my financial files). I have proof they have done this.

Absolutely nothing. It was there property and I am not in the least surprised they checked it given your reaction. As long as they dont use it in anyway they shouldnt they are doing nothing wrong. Change details etc if you are concerned.


There is more and the plot thickens....

• I know for a fact all the directors have their wives on the payroll, but their wives do not do any form of work for the company. It is so they can reduce their tax bill

What exactly is this to do with you?

• I have been in many internal meetings where the directors have discussed about how best to screw the clients for money

And?

• The company receive a lot of money via cheque, and they pay this into the managing directors personal account offshore to avoid tax.

Well you could report this but I doubt you have the right end of the stick. The managing directors would have to be very crafty to make this work.



I know someone has reported them to the HMRC for tax fraud before, should I do the same or what should I do?

Thanks for reading.....

Maybe you should move on; stop being bitter; find a job more suited to your expectatons and behave a bit more appropiately with company equipment in future.

marcus430

Judas wrote: »

Maybe you should move on; stop being bitter; find a job more suited to your expectatons and behave a bit more appropiately with company equipment in future.

Right, well obviously you have no idea about what really went on there - and I've portrayed it badly. So allow me to clear some issues up...

The laptop - I was allowed to install whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. Luckily my financial data was zipped with 256bit encryption.

No dodgy software was put on, the software was 100% legitimate and allowed me to access files whereever I was, regardless of machine - and synced certain files with other people which was critical.

It's just not fesiable for me to carry around 2 laptops. Especially with the amount of travelling I did by public transport.

My contract clearly stated IT duties. When I say about looking at photocopier issues - I meant mechanically. Not just putting in new toner.

I'm not bitter about this at all, just wanted to know my rights. I knew as IT manager I should'nt have put my personal files on there - but for the hours I was working there was little realistic option.

To clarify - it was my first job...on a VERY low salary, and yet when I asked for a payrise, or to have additional hours covered by either extra pay or time off in lieu I was told to forget it. The final expenses I was told wouldn't be paid at all, it was company policy. But I was still go spend £60 of my own money....

To also make the picture a bit clearer - I was made IT manager because the guy before me quit - again for bad reasons because the company were taking the mick. The office administrator and sales person also left for the same reasons. So it's not just me who's "bitter".

That left the company with just the two directors left.

So all in all, I made mistakes yes - but they were awful to work for and I don't regret quitting. My new job is brilliant and they really appreciate and pay me well for all the extra hard work. I'm not stupid, having obtained a first class honours degree from Southampton.

Just makes me so very very very glad that in my last few days (before the final meeting where I was told to get out) all there servers broke and I did nothing to help fix them - as I knew it wouldn't be appreciated. In fact I just spent all the time down in the server room on the phone to friends! They lost A LOT of work because of that I was told. I feel much better for that now!!

I'm also glad I screwed their expenses system - only way I made it worth my while at times.

At least all the data they could see of mine was my new CV to new employer and emails saying I had the job if I wanted it....just thank god I password protected via 256bit encryption all my financial files.

Well, I'm not bitter about it. Just some places get what they deserve.

marcus430

P.S - I have reported them for tax fraud also. Luckily I sent myself emails of conversations between the directors that said their wives were on the payroll despite not working there. RESULT!

iamana1ias

marcus430 wrote: »

P.S - I have reported them for tax fraud also. Luckily I sent myself emails of conversations between the directors that said their wives were on the payroll despite not working there. RESULT!

Which is more than likely why they're now trying to access your personal data!