Are these Bailiff fees correct?

lightisfading

Thanks RobertoMoir

This is the bit we put in our letter relating to the fee:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As per the attached document, forwarded to me by North Lincolnshire Council, I wish to contest the following charge applied to my account:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]May 13, 2010 – Attendance with van - £110.00[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As per these regulations you may only charge 'reasonable fees' for 'attendance with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods'. A valid levy / walking possession agreement must be in place beforehand. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I wish to contest this fee based on the following:[/FONT]

1. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The only walking possession made was on a car, which would not be able to removed with a van – I was in on the day of the visit and witnessed a van (not recovery vehicle) attend, therefore it is clear you did not attend in order to remove a vehicle. A walking possession was not in place for goods that could be removed by a van.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The walking possession document was not signed by ourselves, was not given/posted to us at the time of the levy being made (29/10/2009), and indeed was not sent to ourselves until 8th June 2010.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The fee of £110 is clearly not 'reasonable', given that sample hire prices for similar vehicles for a full day, obtained on 15th June 2010, are as follows:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Practical Car and Van Rental - £46.00[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]TJS Self Drive - £69.00[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Enterprise Rent-A-Car - £61.69[/FONT]

We have had a reply back from the bailiffs accepting our repayment offer (yay) but stating that the fees are legal and they won't be removing them. Unless the council write back to say they aren't I don't think we'll be taking it any further as OH *MUST* have the car they levied on to get to work so we don't want to p*ss them off

DarkConvict

If the OH needs the car for work then the levy is invalid, and as such the walking possession is even more invalid in my opinion. I think you need to get in touch with the council and state that the bailiffs they have instructed have placed unlawful fees on your accounts, such as a levy on a vehicle that cannot be levied as it is used for work purposes, and van hire fees which are excessive and unnecessary given the bailiff did not have a walking possession to make use of the van hire. You want the council to take back the account and remove all bailiffs fee charged as they are been unreasonable.

RobertoMoir

lightisfading wrote: »

Thanks RobertoMoir

This is the bit we put in our letter relating to the fee:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As per the attached document, forwarded to me by North Lincolnshire Council, I wish to contest the following charge applied to my account:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]May 13, 2010 – Attendance with van - £110.00[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As per these regulations you may only charge 'reasonable fees' for 'attendance with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods'. A valid levy / walking possession agreement must be in place beforehand. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I wish to contest this fee based on the following:[/FONT]

1. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The only walking possession made was on a car, which would not be able to removed with a van – I was in on the day of the visit and witnessed a van (not recovery vehicle) attend, therefore it is clear you did not attend in order to remove a vehicle. A walking possession was not in place for goods that could be removed by a van.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The walking possession document was not signed by ourselves, was not given/posted to us at the time of the levy being made (29/10/2009), and indeed was not sent to ourselves until 8th June 2010.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The fee of £110 is clearly not 'reasonable', given that sample hire prices for similar vehicles for a full day, obtained on 15th June 2010, are as follows:[/FONT]

• • [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Practical Car and Van Rental - £46.00[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]TJS Self Drive - £69.00[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Enterprise Rent-A-Car - £61.69[/FONT]

We have had a reply back from the bailiffs accepting our repayment offer (yay) but stating that the fees are legal and they won't be removing them. Unless the council write back to say they aren't I don't think we'll be taking it any further as OH *MUST* have the car they levied on to get to work so we don't want to p*ss them off

A walking possession is not required to levy on goods or to remove them.

If however they have charged you a fee for one when one is not in existence you have them pretty much bang to rights.

If you feel they've behaved unfairly then a complaint to your local councillor might help.

RobertoMoir

DarkConvict wrote: »

If the OH needs the car for work then the levy is invalid, and as such the walking possession is even more invalid in my opinion. I think you need to get in touch with the council and state that the bailiffs they have instructed have placed unlawful fees on your accounts, such as a levy on a vehicle that cannot be levied as it is used for work purposes, and van hire fees which are excessive and unnecessary given the bailiff did not have a walking possession to make use of the van hire. You want the council to take back the account and remove all bailiffs fee charged as they are been unreasonable.

The idea that you can't levy on items required for work actually refers to "tools of the trade". Something used in the commute to and from work isn't covered by that restriction. A vehicle that was absolutely required to carry out a trade would be covered, e.g. a vehicle used by a taxi driver or courier.

lightisfading

Yeah unfortunately they don't count working in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no chance of public transport as 'required for job'

I'm getting really confused re. levies and walking possessions now, I thought they were the same thing?! They filled out a walking possession form on the car, never sent it to us though and we didn't see it until they mentioned it 7 months afterwards! (yes, they didn't contact us, and we didn't contact them, for 7 months - we didn't have money to pay the bill so why attract their attention!). It's obviously not signed by ourselves. Can someone clarify levy/walking possession for me please?

immoral_angeluk

In fairness, compared to other bailiff charges I've seen, those are very low.

loopylu36

Hi, I had a similar problem with Jacobs regarding council tax. They attended once when I was out and left me with a peice of paper. I called them, made an immediate payment and agreed a payment plan. I then got a letter stating that their "costs" came to around £260 including a £200 fee for attendence in a van to levy? The thing is they never attended to made a possession order in the first place - I seem to recall he said he would come back to get me to sign something but he ever did.

Based on this advice I don't think I will pay any of these fees (I did complain at the time but they told me they were lawful).

RobertoMoir

lightisfading wrote: »

Yeah unfortunately they don't count working in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no chance of public transport as 'required for job'

I'm getting really confused re. levies and walking possessions now, I thought they were the same thing?! They filled out a walking possession form on the car, never sent it to us though and we didn't see it until they mentioned it 7 months afterwards! (yes, they didn't contact us, and we didn't contact them, for 7 months - we didn't have money to pay the bill so why attract their attention!). It's obviously not signed by ourselves. Can someone clarify levy/walking possession for me please?

A levy is a list of items that have been seized against a debt

• The debtor's signature is neither wanted or required for this
• A correctly completed levy is the minimal requirement to remove goods.

A walking posession agreement is an agreement between the bailiff and the debtor to leave the goods seized by the bailiff in the care of the debtor for a fee, with the debtor acknowledging and agreeing that the bailiff can come and retrieve them at a further date should they need to do so.

• The debtor's signature IS required to make this document valid
• This should be done alongside the levy. But it's not a required component of a levy, it's just a cherry on top.
• If a fee for this is charged when one has not been completed, the fee would be legal and (in my opinion) this would invalidate the levy.
• Most of the time, it is a bad idea to sign one of these. I'd never say "never" but the default advice is that you shouldn't ever sign a WP.

lightisfading

Thanks for that RobertoMoir,

I've figured out why I was confused - the document they sent me was a walking possession - unsigned. We haven't seen any levy paperwork, if there is such a thing. Can they do a levy but leave it in your possession? Or is a levy purely 'we have taken this'? (as it's a car, they didn't take it).

Re. the fees. Yes we are aware they could be higher, which is why we're basically playing dead and have agreed a payment plan - we don't want it to end up in court or with the car towed. We sent them a letter from the outset saying 'we know what you're allowed to charge, which is a, b and c' (for example) so I guess they realised they shouldn't try it on with completely rubbish charges?

RobertoMoir

lightisfading wrote: »

Thanks for that RobertoMoir,

I've figured out why I was confused - the document they sent me was a walking possession - unsigned. We haven't seen any levy paperwork, if there is such a thing. Can they do a levy but leave it in your possession? Or is a levy purely 'we have taken this'? (as it's a car, they didn't take it).

Re. the fees. Yes we are aware they could be higher, which is why we're basically playing dead and have agreed a payment plan - we don't want it to end up in court or with the car towed. We sent them a letter from the outset saying 'we know what you're allowed to charge, which is a, b and c' (for example) so I guess they realised they shouldn't try it on with completely rubbish charges?

They've left you with an unsigned walking posession? Really? without wishing to be rude, sure it's not a copy of a levy sheet, which includes a section for a walking posession agreement?

As Herbie is much more up to date than me, I'd very strongly suggest you talk over this paperwork with her.