Employer possibly cancelling previously authorised holiday

pinkshoes

The holiday has been signed off, so if the company want her not to take it, they'll have to grovel very hard.

If I were here, and they asked me not to take that week off, then I'd be asking them to pay for the hotels, tickets and train fare, then also make them source tickets for the following week, and pay any excess costs of having to go the following week.

sghughes42

Just got a bit more detail on this and it has become a bit more complicated. It appears this other person basically administers the running of the place. Apparently to book a holiday you have to fill in 5 or 6 pieces of paper and it seems my GF failed to fill one of these in.

So, in effect, they are now claiming the holiday has not been booked.

Now, the manager is aware of it and surely even filling in one form would be enough to make them aware of the request - I can't see making it difficult to book holiday as being a valid excuse to refuse it. As it was mentioned to her that both her and the person who works Mon/Tues were having the same week off they were obviously aware of the booking...

Any more comments based on this new info?

DVardysShadow

sghughes42 wrote: »

Just got a bit more detail on this and it has become a bit more complicated. It appears this other person basically administers the running of the place. Apparently to book a holiday you have to fill in 5 or 6 pieces of paper and it seems my GF failed to fill one of these in.

So, in effect, they are now claiming the holiday has not been booked.

Now, the manager is aware of it and surely even filling in one form would be enough to make them aware of the request - I can't see making it difficult to book holiday as being a valid excuse to refuse it. As it was mentioned to her that both her and the person who works Mon/Tues were having the same week off they were obviously aware of the booking...

Any more comments based on this new info?

Gloves off. This is pure obstructionism. After they have been told once, the other bits of paper are the employer's own systems which have failed.

Suggest GF collects copies of everything accessible ASAP. I agree, the employer will be aware on the filling in of one form. Possibly it will be necessary to hold up a hand to failing to comply with office procedure as part of duties of employee - but equally, the vacation has been communicated and agreed as a contractual communication between employee and employer. Do however expect this to turn quite nasty.

sghughes42

I think the main problem here is that we only have a note from the site administrator regarding this problem. She hasn't spoken to her - she only works Saturdays so I'm not sure if my GF has ever even met her! They seem to spend all their time leaving notes for each other!

I know she informed the 'main office' of the request at the time (February) so they should also have a record there. As I say, the boss has acknowledged it. Unfortunately, until he returns from holiday we don't seem able to get a resolution for this either way. My understanding is that the site admin doesn't have any authority to authorise or deny holiday, she simply administers requests and keeps track of who is available when.

Generally it wouldn't be a problem as someone from the main office could come over and provide cover but I gather they are a bit short at the moment and the boss will be tied up with the site audit making it even harder....

I've suggested she raise the issue of booking holiday with the boss when he returns as it can't be reasonable to expect them to fill in several pieces of paperwork to book a holiday. It should be a single request and if they need it recording elsewhere then that is their issue, the employee can't be responsible for knowing what they want where surely?

sghughes42

Another quick thought - they don't seem to get any official confirmation that a holiday request has been accepted. From my reading of the ACAS document the employer has the length of holiday to respond to the request. Is it fair to assume that no response can be taken as accepting the request?

If so, and if we can argue that filling in most of the forms can be construed to be a valid request then she has them that way...

DVardysShadow

sghughes42 wrote: »

From my reading of the ACAS document the employer has the length of holiday to respond to the request. Is it fair to assume that no response can be taken as accepting the request?

The employer can refuse permission by giving counter notice at least as long as the leave requested.

I would say that is up to the length of the leave before the leave starts. But you do not want to be arguing there. That is more appropriate when the employee is giving a min notice request and leaving it in the employer's lap. You should be arguing that it is approved and therefore counter notice cannot be given.

mariefab

The relevant legislation would be this section of the Working Time Regulations.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/19981833.htm#15

It doesn't state that any notice, or counter notice, must be written.
So, it may need to be explicitly stated in the contract/handbook that notice must be given/received in writing. Or, as in this case, 5/6 lots of writing. Otherwise verbal notice should do.

Zazen999

I'd be inclined to say:

'When I hear from my manager that there is an issue with my leave; then I will discuss with him what the problem is and arrange for the monies spent on the booked holiday to be reimbursed and alternative tickets/hotels/train fares to be rebooked. Until then, the leave stands as approved by my manager. Unfortunately, I plan things and cannot just chop and change; the process is to request leave, and once approved; then the hotels/transport/tickets get booked. Bearing in mind the tickets are for Wimbledon - it may well be more cost effective to get a temp in. Hope that helps.'

sghughes42

DVardysShadow wrote: »

The employer can refuse permission by giving counter notice at least as long as the leave requested.

I would say that is up to the length of the leave before the leave starts. But you do not want to be arguing there. That is more appropriate when the employee is giving a min notice request and leaving it in the employer's lap. You should be arguing that it is approved and therefore counter notice cannot be given.

Re-reading it (and the OPSI that Mariefab posted) it is all very confusing. They appear to be saying you can give 12 months notice you want a week off and then 1 week beforehand the employer can say no. All they need to do is acknowledge the request but carefully not actually approve it and it becomes your word against theirs... Unless you get some sort of confirmation in writing how can you prove it has been approved?

Certainly we aim to argue it is already approved, I'm just looking for any 'catch all' we can use as a backup.

sghughes42

Zazen999 wrote: »

Bearing in mind the tickets are for Wimbledon - it may well be more cost effective to get a temp in.

I wonder if they'll stump up the cost of debenture tickets for the both of us... That'll pay for a temp for a month!