Can they make me bankrupt?

grocerjack

peachyprice wrote: »

What personal guarantee is he talking about? Did you sign anything before the court case giving your personal guarantee, or was this a verbal agreement? It would be unsual for a lawyer to accept a personal guarantee with nothing in writing, are you sure you didn't sign anything at the time of the court case?

Hi - I am 100% certain that I have never signed anything at all. Even if I did promise to try and find the money, does that really constitute a contract? Ultimately I maintain I never made any personal guarantee, and there's a good reason for that.......I wouldn't have promised to pay anything like that kind of money. We earn about £60k between us, which whilst in itself isn't bad we do have a big mortgage, and 2 kids in their teens as well as all the usual stuff like a car each (mines a 9 year old Volvo...hardly ostentatious!) - there's just no way I'd commit to a huge bill like that and watch every hard earned saved penny go down the pan.

He's just tried to call me as well and I'm not sure I should answer it in case he tries to tie me up into admitting the debt. I am considering replying to the email, listing some of the points I've made and some of the points made by the kind comments here.

bat-out-of-hell

Then I suggest you request said solicitor provides the evidence he will rely on in court, so you can asses your position, defence, and if needed, counterclaim, as you have no recollection of any such conversation where you gave any guarantee.

As a claimant in any legal action, it is for them to prove you gave said guarantee, not for you as defendant to prove you did not, just remember that, its important.

Under civil procedure rules, you have the right to ask for copies of all agreements they will use in evidence against you.

As I said, a verbal agreement is difficult to prove, unless it was witnessed, even if it was you could claim you where under duress even if they could, and ‘misunderstood’ what was said, or they took advantage of the situation to secure there fee, as they new they would lose the case, and therefore lose there fee in the BR.

Unless they got a signature off you, as JPS29 says,I think they will struggle to prove anything or prove you where aware of any implications from a brief conversation. But that would depend on the judge on the day and what proof the conversation took place, let alone what was said, that they could supply.

All I can see them offering from your post is a statement of truth, in other words there word against yours.

Unless you signed anything!

grocerjack

JPS29 wrote: »

That was my point. PG's are VERY binding so I have never heard of one being a verbal contract only. That's not to say that a verbal one isn't enforceable, just in my experience of them (I've had a few) they have always been written, and very explicit in their obligations. I feel for you mate as I know how things can go fuzzy whilst dealng with the BR and through the courts. If I were in your shoes I would contact the solicitor BEFORE they issue BR proceedings asking them on what grounds they believe they have a PG fom you. If they say written ask for a copy of it, If they say verbal then it "may" be your word against theirs. Keep us posted pls and good luck

Thanks JPS29 - I definitely didn't sign anything - I did ask him to attend court on the last session but on behalf of my wife. If I hadn't rung him then her sister would have done...so would she now be liable? I don't recall any discussion about acting as a personal guarantor for the fees and I'm pretty sure I'd remember agreeing to that.

I'm speaking to a few different parties, as well as this community to get a groundswell of opinion before I reply to his email. At the very least I'm unsure as to whether I have been served with a petition or not. I am wondering if he knows he screwed up by NOT getting anything in writing and therefore is pursuing this route.

bat-out-of-hell

grocerjack wrote: »

He's just tried to call me as well and I'm not sure I should answer it in case he tries to tie me up into admitting the debt. I am considering replying to the email, listing some of the points I've made and some of the points made by the kind comments here.

DEAL WITH THIS IN WRITING ONLY FROM NOW ON!

Sorry, but you need to prove everything that is said from now on.

grocerjack

bat-out-of-hell wrote: »

DEAL WITH THIS IN WRITING ONLY FROM NOW ON!

Sorry, but you need to prove everything that is said from now on.

Hiya bat-out-of-hell (love the name)

Do you mean physical writing as in letter form only? Or can I reply to the email with a follow up letter to him and the senior partner of the firm (using some of the excellent points laid out by yourself in the previous post). I've also been pointed to the Solicitors Regulatory Authority to complain, and the Consumer Direct service for contract advice.

I'm very very grateful to all the people who are commenting back, it is very heart warming to know such a fantastic community exists.

peachyprice

Was this email the first reference to you making a personal guarantee, or have they mentioned it before?

For now I would keep things very simple. As Bat had said above, keep everything in writing from now on. Send a letter stating that as far as you are aware you have never agreed to being a personal guarantor and ask them to send you a copy of the signed agreement. There response to that will speak volumes.

As for as the statutory demand goes, does it have a court stamp on it?

bat-out-of-hell

An SD does not come from the court Peachy, so it wont, anyone can download one and send it by post to class it as served.

Im just not sure if recent updates to CPR would class it as served if sent by email, they might do.....

bat-out-of-hell

And yes, i would take the belt and braces approach, follow up in writing via recorded delivery.

Claiming a correspondence was never received is the oldest one in the book

grocerjack

peachyprice wrote: »

Was this email the first reference to you making a personal guarantee, or have they mentioned it before?

For now I would keep things very simple. As Bat had said above, keep everything in writing from now on. Send a letter stating that as far as you are aware you have never agreed to being a personal guarantor and ask them to send you a copy of the signed agreement. There response to that will speak volumes.

As for as the statutory demand goes, does it have a court stamp on it?

Thanks - the email was the second time - the first being an email attachment late last year, which I chose to ignore (maybe foolishly) as the debt was being delete with under my wife's bankruptcy.
I've just spoken to someone from the Consumer Direct service who has said the same, do it all in writing from now on and NOT email writing, but by formal letter. If he calls then I am to say I am putting it in writing and that I will not discuss this by phone. They also say to lay out the requests for their evidence, and asking for any recordings of phone calls made if that's their evidence. If the calls weren't recorded then that's good but on every call I made it was mobile to mobile bar one conversation and I was definitely NOT forewarned of any recording.

She also mentioned the duress of being at court etc but said to keep the emotion out of the letter and simply make the statements asking for a response in 7 days AND to send it recorded delivery.

Once again thanks to everyone, for the first time in days I feel a little more confident.

bat-out-of-hell

She also mentioned the duress of being at court etc but said to keep the emotion out of the letter and simply make the statements asking for a response in 7 days AND to send it recorded delivery.

I agree, save that for when you know what cards they hold, if any.

I would also question why they issued an SD last OCT, but have done nothing untill now?

Could it be that your wifes OR has told them they wont be getting anything?

Do you know if they have staked a claim of any dividend of your wifes BR estate.

If they have, it may help add 'doubt' to there case;)