Salary dispute - advise please

Monkey_Joe

I’m currently employed as a Territory Manager for a Biotech company who sell in the UK and Germany. I am paid £37k basic and manage the UK South and London. The job is sales. The company is based in Paris and they have only hired two of us for the UK.

During a company meeting last month; myself and my UK colleague where party to a conversation with our German counterparts where they complained about being underpaid and we were shocked to discover that what they consider “underpaid” is on average 20% higher then what we earn. This is disappointing firstly because (1) we have outperformed the Germans for 3 years – the company never hit their targets for 2 years largely due to the Germans underperforming whereas we have always hit targets or been 2% off; (2) no significant difference in qualification and experience between us and Germans, (3) when compared to competitor companies in the UK we are underpaid by about 10% and (4) the GBP is considerably weak against the Euro so it’s even cheaper for our French company to employ us – also due to the slide in the GBP the company increased the UK prices of the products we sell by 10% to counteract what loss they make.

With my UK colleagues approval, I sent an e-mail to our manager and CEO informing that they we are feeling very demotivated due to the issues above coming to light. They have both agreed to fly to the UK to meet us to discuss this issue and highlight things from “their perspective”.

In summary, what we want is to be paid what we deserve and have our salaries increased by 10% at least. However, realistically I don’t think this will happen so Im assuming that the bosses are just coming to the UK to soften the blow and it would look a lot nicer if they rejected our request in person then over e-mail or phone.

I would appreciate some advise from reader here, in regards to possible excuses that they could throw at us and good rebuttals that we can throw back at them to convince them they are treating us unfairly.

paulwf

You probably need to look at taxation rates and the cost of living in the UK and Germany. It might be that you are actually better off than your German counterparts even though your gross salary is less.

The Germans are complaining they are being underpaid and you are saying you are underpaid so it sounds like you and your European colleagues are both on a similar pay band. If they earn 20% more than you and you are only paid 10% less than the UK industry average they should be earning 10% above the average and wouldn't be complaining...as they are complaining it shows salaries must be higher in Germany.

To cut a long story short companies don't pay you what you are worth or based on how hard you work, companies pay just enough to stop you jumping ship. They've made a calculation, 10% below the average is probably not low enough to make you look elsewhere, and if it is they probably know they can still find someone decent to work for the same salary. Unless they get a very high turnover of staff or can't attract decent recruits they won't have any incentive to pay more.

Dark_Jester

paulwf wrote: »

You probably need to look at taxation rates and the cost of living in the UK and Germany. It might be that you are actually better off than your German counterparts even though your gross salary is less.

The Germans are complaining they are being underpaid and you are saying you are underpaid so it sounds like you and your European colleagues are both on a similar pay band. If they earn 20% more than you and you are only paid 10% less than the UK industry average they should be earning 10% above the average and wouldn't be complaining...as they are complaining it shows salaries must be higher in Germany.

To cut a long story short companies don't pay you what you are worth or based on how hard you work, companies pay just enough to stop you jumping ship. They've made a calculation, 10% below the average is probably not low enough to make you look elsewhere, and if it is they probably know they can still find someone decent to work for the same salary. Unless they get a very high turnover of staff or can't attract decent recruits they won't have any incentive to pay more.

I don't think there is a significant difference between the UK and Germany in regards to the tax.

If I'm honest, ill be suprised if the OP gets a pay rise most employers won't back down. Unless, you are someone who can be replaced they know they can get someone just as good and so won't offer you any incentive

mitchaa

How did you work out the difference? Comparison of exchange rates? In 2007, we were getting 1.45 Eur to the £, in 2009 it was near a parity and today it is around 1.2 Eur. When it was near a parity, a can of coke was costing 2 Eur (Or £2) A litre of fuel well over 1 Eur 50. (£1.50) so the eurozone was very very expensive for us Brits

It's not as clear cut as comparing the 2. Are they still paid more with a conversion rate at 1.45?

heretolearn_2

You can't just equal out the salaries using the exchange rate. Different countries have different costs of living and so on. Even within the UK you expect to earn more in London for the same job as in, say Yorkshire, because of different levels of local costs.

You can try but I don't think you'll be lucky on that basis. Stick to comparisons within the UK.

Proc

With my UK colleagues approval, I sent an e-mail to our manager and CEO informing that they we are feeling very demotivated due to the issues above coming to light.

This made me chringe. Although you didn't spell it out directly, you basically said "because they're paid more, we're not going to do our jobs as well as before". If that's not the intention, that's exactly how it comes across.

The bosses are going to fly over, tell you that you are completely replaceable and you can leave if you don't like the pay structure because quite frankly, the pay scales of foreign employees are none of your business. Then the bosses will enjoy a night out in London on company expenses and they've used your moany jobs-worthy self as a perfect excuse to get there.

Steel_2

I don't think you are being treated unfairly (a 37K basic is hardly unfair) and I wouldn't have sent that email.

I would have put together a compelling report highlighting your previous good sales record, a forecast for your likely (good) sales for the rest of the year and built a case for a rise in basic and/or commission percentage.

Are you going to hit or exceed your targets this year or will you be off?

I also agree with others about the change in the Euro exchange rate over the last 18 months or so and how that could have affected the German's 'percieved' (unfair) pay. I sincerely hope you took that into account when you wrote that email.

Monkey_Joe

Steel wrote: »

I don't think you are being treated unfairly (a 37K basic is hardly unfair) and I wouldn't have sent that email.

I would have put together a compelling report highlighting your previous good sales record, a forecast for your likely (good) sales for the rest of the year and built a case for a rise in basic and/or commission percentage.

Are you going to hit or exceed your targets this year or will you be off?

I also agree with others about the change in the Euro exchange rate over the last 18 months or so and how that could have affected the German's 'percieved' (unfair) pay. I sincerely hope you took that into account when you wrote that email.

Yes, in my e-mail I included my performance and I am well above target. In fact, since joining the company in 2007 I have outperformed every other person in the company

Also, responding to the person who said that it was non of my buisness what others earned, you are correct and I never went snooping. However, its a bit difficult when you go to meetings and during after work drinks all they do is bang on about how underpaid they are and its even worse when their "underpaid" is higher then ours despite poor performances for 3 years.

Any way, that was then this is now.....

I have had the meeting with the CEO and manager and we have been given a 15% pay rise. Cut a long story short, they did not want to lose us nor did they want our high performances to drop so they caved in.

So it was me who went out celebrating that night!! :money:

getmore4less

From £27k in April to £37k + 15% in June thats some pay rise this year!

Premier_2

I doubt you'll get any change in salary comparing to overseas wages.

Wages are set at a competitive rate (remember you were happy with the rate when you first accepted the job) usually based on similar wages in that area for doing a similar job.

It is therefore extremely common for international companies to pay their employees doing essentially the same job different rates depending on the country they are in.

BexInLondon

Proc wrote: »

This made me chringe. Although you didn't spell it out directly, you basically said "because they're paid more, we're not going to do our jobs as well as before". If that's not the intention, that's exactly how it comes across.

Not true at all. It came across to me as "we're demotivated because we feel unvalued". If any of my staff said the same, and they were performing, I wouldn't take it badly.