Prime Minister warns of 'Years of pain ahead'

Degenerate

A._Badger wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's just not triue. Cameron is a nasty piece of work, I grant you, but only the wilfully self-deluded would try to pretend that 'New' Labour wasn't built on spin and deceit, from the outset.

This tribal party politics just gets so wearisome.

There is a difference between spin and blatant untruths.

FYI, I'm not tribal. I was planning to vote Conservative up until late 2008. Then Lehman happened, and Brown and Darling got it right while Cameron and Osborne started lying with statistics to say Britain was bankrupt and the national debt was "the highest it's ever been".

A._Badger

Degenerate wrote: »

There is a difference between spin and blatant untruths.

FYI, I'm not tribal. I was planning to vote Conservative up until late 2008. Then Lehman happened, and Brown and Darling got it right while Cameron and Osborne started lying with statistics to say Britain was bankrupt and the national debt was "the highest it's ever been".

I disagree with you on two counts. I believe 'New' Labour was consistently lying - not just from when it was elected, but from the moment it was born. The fact that Cameron is no better should surprise no one.

I also believe we are pretty much bust. £40,000 debt for every single household in the country impresses me, even if others feel it can be shrugged-off as being of little consequence.

Degenerate

amcluesent wrote: »

Nope. Ghastly chavs, "seekers", and benefits claimants voting for Labour's handouts caused this, they can take the brunt of the cuts. 'If they will not work, they shall not eat!'

No need to be so hard on them, they will become a valuable source of food once the long emergency starts.

C_Mababejive

wymondham wrote: »

... I hope the 'pain' is spread out as evenly as possible. We've all got to pay for this.

I disagree.

What has it to do with me?

I have worked hard since leaving school almost 30 years ago,never been a burden on anyone and have contributed thousands to taxation for the welfare of others. I save for the future and for pensions etc so that i wont be a burden.

I didnt create this fiasco so what has it to do with me ?
I shall be doing my best to avoid any pain.

C_Mababejive

thescouselander wrote: »

Well I just asked my OH and she reminded me that her pay rise this year was 7% and her bonus was the biggest ever. The private sector isn't doing as bad as is being made out I think.

I work for a major global blue chip and i can tell you that even a mega company like mine has been drawing in its claws for the past few years with little recruitment,constant targeting to save save save,cost cutting,various threats of cuts,and my last pay deal was something like rpi + 0.5%

tomterm8

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Front line budgets have been squeezed for years. Every year they have made to make efficency savings by making their budgets pay for more. This year its 4%.

Erm, not sure I'm we're getting each other, old chap. Whether or not you ring fence the NHS is a matter of quantity of spending, not quality of spending.

In other words, if the policy of the government is to cut the deficit by spending less, then you have to look at the NHS, which spends a large proportion of government funds.

I am not talking about the kind of cuts where you end up with the same amount of money but better spent.

For what its worth, I don't agree that the best way to cut the deficit is to cut spending yet. I think that it is likely to be remarkably unsucessfull. Latvia and Ireland has tried to do it that way, and both had huge recessions and, due to deflation and unemployment, have ended up further from fiscal sustainability than they started.

Old_Slaphead

thescouselander wrote: »

Furthermore my comments weren't just based on the experience of my OH. I cant think of anyone who I know working in the private sector who has been given a pay rise they are unhappy with. No one I know has been made redundant with the exception of one person who was working for the council (therefore public sector).

Which part of the country are you referencing and which sectors ?????

I know of dozens (maybe hundreds) of people who've had pay freezes, cuts, reduced hours, redundancy. I know of no-one in private sector who's had a pay rise above inflation. I live in East Midlands and have considerable knowledge of SME manufacturing businesses.

So far I know of no compulsary redundancies in public sector (tho' many staff have left and not been replaced).

Rotor

A._Badger wrote: »

I avoid offering anecdotal evidence, but I've been shocked by how many people have quietly confided in me that they are in deep trouble, recently. Just today, someone I have always considered one of the brighter small businessmen I know told me that he and his wife have taken the decision to give it just six more months. If it hasn't improved by then they are selling out or closing down.

One small engineering company I know (yes, there are still a few left!) is hanging on by its fingernails.

And yet still, the Guardian is kept afloat by adverts for non-jobs - particularly in the local gummint sector.

I had a friend who once used anecdotal figures and he got it completely wrong;)

donaldtramp

Degenerate wrote: »

The comprehension problem is yours, since in your attempt to patronize me you have failed to contradict me at all, just quoted numbers and beseeched me to "actually understand". Nowhere in my post did I say anything to indicate a confusion between the budget deficit and the cumulative national debt, and in any case the point I made was valid for both measures.


£156B Actual deficit was lower than £163.4B predicted deficit

Adding a lower than expected deficit to our cumulative debt produces a lower than expected cumulative debt.

Therefore both measures came out lower than expected.

By saying things are "worse than expected" Cameron is lying, unless we are to believe that he actually had a way more optimistic view than Brown and Darling and expected a deficit lower than even the £156B figure.




On no, let's be clear the figures matter rather a lot. The thing is, they've been encouraging recently. Economic growth revised up, deficit revised down. This just doesn't fit the "national crisis" narrative that Cameron wants to use to justify his cuts. So instead he's decided to just lie about it.

Cameron isn't lying. When he speaks of things being worse than expected he is talking about the big picture. NOT just the budget deficit. No matter how many halfwits like you try to twist it that way.

There is a national crisis, which was caused by Labour (as is always the case) and it is worse than expected. Brown has devastated us for decades.

donaldtramp

There is a difference between spin and blatant untruths.

FYI, I'm not tribal. I was planning to vote Conservative up until late 2008. Then Lehman happened, and Brown and Darling got it right while Cameron and Osborne started lying with statistics to say Britain was bankrupt and the national debt was "the highest it's ever been".

And who was it that removed all the controls on the banks....
hmmm think it was our prudent Labour chancellor Brown.

Our debt IS absolutely ludicrous.