Harriet Harman calls for 50% quota for female shadow cabinet members

Really2

carolt wrote: »

Please read my previous post as I clearly stated I don't think men and women are identical nor should be.

I think the one viewing this as a gender war is you - sit back and chill.




None of your responses to my most recent post make any sense - could you reread my post and answer it meaningfully and then I can respond - can't be bothered to point out the errors in every single sentence of your post.

By all means disagree with me but could you at least do it logically so I can respond without needing to repeat all my points again.

Thanks.

Of course carol, I would say read your own posts as it is you not making sense.

care to explain this and why you submitted such an irrational attacking response to such a benign point.

carolt wrote: »

You seem to be implying that the proportion of women selling in make-up in Debenhams is as it is because - presumably - men don't wear make-up and aren't very interested in it ie it's a female-dominated sphere. To apply this analogy to the number of female MPs puts you on very dangerous ground, Really - are you really implying that politics is and should be a male-dominated sphere in the same manner that make-up is a female-dominated sphere???!!!

Images of 'women should be nice and pretty and not trouble their pretty little heads with all this important male politics stuff a la 1952' spring to mind here.

My point has been fairly clear, I do not believe as many women want to be politicans as men and that is more likely the reason for this disparity than sexisum. (and that is where you accused me of all sorts.)

Just like not many women as men want to go in the army, we are different in may ways and some jobs outline that. is that really sexist.

But you have the stats on my local councilors, no 50/50 split there either, read in to that what you like.

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

Have at you local council list, there expenses would have been recently released.

We have 79 councilors in our area 22 are female.

but what about advisors, support roles, canvassers, working in a quango etc etc....

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

but what about advisors, support roles, canvassers, working in a quango etc etc....

I don't know they don't list them but if there was a 50% interest in being an MP would that not some how manifest in local government also?

Quangos are not political they are government body's but not run based on politics (EG the recently axed BECTA)

But just thinking about it it is interesting that is it around 1/4 of mp's are female and that is nearly reflecting in my local councilers.

It would be interesting to see how that looks across the country.

chewmylegoff

Generali wrote: »

chocolate body paint is zero rated, (presumably it counts as food.

nutella is zero rated as well, so that makes sense - shouldn't matter whether you smear it on bread, another person or the floor before you eat it!

lostinrates

chewmylegoff wrote: »

nutella is zero rated as well, so that makes sense - shouldn't matter whether you smear it on bread, another person or the floor before you eat it!

Nutella is less objectionable n taste though. Honestly, if nutella ha vat I'd still choose it over zero rated chocolate body paint. If I had a hankering to lick food of people. I'f always thought the idea of sushi of a person is better though....more...sensual, apt....

chewmylegoff

lostinrates wrote: »

Nutella is less objectionable n taste though. Honestly, if nutella ha vat I'd still choose it over zero rated chocolate body paint. If I had a hankering to lick food of people. I'f always thought the idea of sushi of a person is better though....more...sensual, apt....

best not get any wasabi in the wrong place though, eh?

have to say, given the choice i'd rather not be covered in raw fish.

Generali

lostinrates wrote: »

Nutella is less objectionable n taste though. Honestly, if nutella ha vat I'd still choose it over zero rated chocolate body paint. If I had a hankering to lick food of people. I'f always thought the idea of sushi of a person is better though....more...sensual, apt....

It's called Niyotaimori or something like that.

Shakethedisease

In my world carol I embrace that men and women differ physicaly, mentaly, psychologicaly and socialy and do not think we should force things to happen, it is better to look at people as people and chose them on atributes NOT GENDER

That's exactly the point ! There should be far more women in power because their gender shouldn't be an issue !! But it is obviously, otherwise there would be more of them, and you wouldn't be coming out with 'cosy' little comments like the below twaddle.

1) There less women in work than men. They have kids to look after ( or may do in the future)
2) less women are in full time work than men. They have kids to look after ( or may do in the future)
3) Voting is not an indication of interest in politics is it. No, not necessarily, but why confine that comment to women only ? It's the same for everyone surely.

But it does very little to explain why UK politics is still so male-dominated ? And the stubborn 'well that's the way it's always been so that's how it should be' attitude makes for very wearing reading. I can't envison women going back to chaining ourselves to railings etc. But attitudes like your's belong back in 1920 or thereabouts. ..'Oh women aren't interested in all the 'politics' stuff. They're far better just looking pretty serving at make-up counters and working part-time in a little bakery or something. As long as the men can just get on with the important things like running the country'.

I don't know if you're aware, but your posts on this thread kept nagging at me as to what they reminded me of. Then it struck me..

It was this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwNGU

Really2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That's exactly the point ! There should be far more women in power because their gender shouldn't be an issue !! But it is obviously, otherwise there would be more of them, and you wouldn't be coming out with 'cosy' little comments like the below twaddle.



But it does very little to explain why UK politics is still so male-dominated ? And the stubborn 'well that's the way it's always been so that's how it should be' attitude makes for very wearing reading. I can't envison women going back to chaining ourselves to railings etc. But attitudes like your's belong back in 1920 or thereabouts. ..'Oh women aren't interested in all the 'politics' stuff. They're far better just looking pretty serving at make-up counters and working part-time in a little bakery or something. As long as the men can just get on with the important things like running the country'.

I don't know if you're aware, but your posts on this thread kept nagging at me as to what they reminded me of. Then it struck me..

Yes it is me being sexist even though the working part time /out of work figures are true and "could" possibly be a reason why more women vote (I was asked for a reason not proof)

But look I have nothing against equal reprisentation but you need to start thinking do enough women put their selves forward instead of presuming it has to be sexisum, go run to become local counilor or run to be an MP. It certainly looks like more women need to run for these kind of posts so a 50/50 split would be supported throughout politics based on the local government councilor levels.

But please explain if it is men causing this why only a 1/4 of counilors in my area are female.

Really2 wrote: »

We have 79 councilors in our area 22 are female.

pop up your local council details if you think I have made mine up, perhaps mine are a fluke but it seems no one is prepared to use any facts to debate just sling mud


If this equal desire to be involved in politics is there perhaps more need to start getting involved instead of trying to make out it is men causing the problem.

It looks like the female representation is fairly similar to those involved in local politics.

So without trying to use the sexist card and the 1920's explain that please.

You seem to be the sexist not I as you need to constantly make me out to be saying things I am not.

That is a poor way to go about any debate and is not something I am doing to you.
Please point out where I have said.

Oh women aren't interested in all the 'politics' stuff. They're far better just looking pretty serving at make-up counters and working part-time in a little bakery or something

I have simply stated more women work part time or not at all, and that could be a reason why more vote. If it is not true on employment disprove it as the point is not sexist just a fact.

Considerning on the subject of house prices and joint wages are brought up most say how will they cope on one wage I am really surprised people like carol then say it is sexist to say some women stay at home or work part time after children.
I presume they are double standard sexists also.:D

Thankfully a lot of the females on here do understand that I am mearly looking at why this might be happening, that is not sexisum.
If I said it was correct and that is how it should be it would be, but anyone with a rational mind looks at reasoning instead of going straight into blaming a gender for why it is happening.

Like I said colour is less eqally reprisented than gender, yet that does not seem to be a problem for Harmen, you or Carol. But I have not used the same kind of twist around logic you and carol use to make out that must mean you are racist......

Alan_Cross

Quotas are the wrong way.

On the other hand, it is undeniably more difficult for women to access top positions in almost any area of life you care to mention. This is for reasons which are well understood by anyone who has the ability to think.

In such a situation, it is important that some positive encouragement be given to women of talent and ability to make their mark. The country has been ill served by this chronic, ongoing under-representation of half its citizens. If you want to find a major reason why parliament looks and behaves like an Old Etonian dinner club, look no further.

As usual, it's the Labour Party which has at least been trying to address the question, with the Tories quite happy for politics to continue be the home of grey suits and stuffed shirts.