Club La Costa Disgusting Customer Service and Misleading 'Prize Luxury Holidays'.

marleyboy

Can you give my regards to brad an angelina next time you see them?

Sorry don't know anyone called Brad and Angelina but we did meet Barry Manilow in Venice.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

marleyboy

"By this time I was feeling bored, tired and hungry. All the other couples in the room had left, probably without buying anything, despite the assertion that one in four "holiday awardees" do join. Our two hours were nearly up so I began to press for the cost of joining Club La Costa.

Nigel and his colleague prevaricated, reverting to the pad to note down benefits they had already pointed out. We suggested that the reason for their reticence was due to the price being predicated on what they felt we could afford. This was strongly refuted. We demanded they tell us the price. A laminated sheet of paper was produced from under the table on which a table of costs for a two-bed apartment was detailed. It said: "List - £12,660. Charter - £9,125." I asked what "Charter" meant. Nigel was berated for not having "done" Charter, but it was simple enough: this was the price we would pay today. "List" was the price we would pay tomorrow. Both bought 65 years' membership.

Salesman No2 assured us that "most people just get out their credit cards now and pay". I noted down the prices, saying we would have to think about it but that, ideally, we would like a shorter membership period and that we would like to talk to existing members.

The first price sheet was whisked away. In its place was another offer: "Discovery Plus", a trial membership for holidays totalling six weeks over 34 months with no maintenance fees, for £2,495. This stipulated that the first holiday must be to a specified Club La Costa resort in Spain; the five remaining weeks would cost £100 each. We said we found this expensive but would think about it at home.

I folded my sheet of notes and moved to put it in my bag, but salesman No2 leant forward and snatched them from me. An unseemly tussle ensued - which I won - across the little caf! table. The big boss remained impassive in his chair by the door. We were taken to reception, issued with our holiday awards, and shown out".
What the experts say


We got off lightly, according to Sandy Grey, chairman of the watchdog Timeshare Consumers Association (TCA). Had we succumbed to the not-very-enticing offer of a 65-year membership and the obligation to pay management fees, which in themselves equal the cost of the average family package holiday, we could have found those fees increasing each year at a rate far in excess of inflation. Some timeshare companies, he says, levy additional charges - say, £300 - on the pretext of carrying out extraordinary repairs.


Almost half of all couples who are sold timeshare holidays in the way I experienced try to cancel during the statutory "cooling off" period of 10-14 days, but many companies simply refuse to acknowledge this right, challenging the couple to sue them in court.



The Consumers Association (CA) advises the public never to sign any contract without first showing it to a solicitor.



And if you do buy? In general, disenchanted owners who attempt to sell their timeshare may realise between £500-£1,000 on the second-hand market. This market is beset by fraudulent dealings: Sandy Grey reported to the European Parliament in 2001 an estimated 120 million euros (about £78 million) stolen from owners by bogus timeshare resellers who promise unrealistic resale values, charge a fee upfront and then never achieve a sale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/725678/Youve-won-a-free-holiday.html

nicechap

maksipup,

Are you saying you were mistaken when you told me you had taken 150 weeks and not 100 weeks?

Are you now saying that CLC is a good financial investment? You told me my holiday in the algarve would have cost me over £1000 for accommodation, I've got it for under £600.

If its such a good deal, why can't people sell their membership (here's an example http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/First-wk-Ski-Season-Timeshare-Alpine-Club-Schladming-/170523388506?afsrc=1) and as I demonstrated with a 30 second google search,(https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1120715) I could buy the same holiday for less without being committed to year after year of rising maintenance fees when in my experience rental fees have been coming down.

If the memberships have any value, why won't Club la Costa buy back these memberships?

If the memberships have no value to club la costa but they'd like to keep having the annual maintenacne fee coming in, why won't Club La Costa allow memberships to be transferred without an enormous transfer fee??

maksipup

nicechap wrote: »

maksipup,

Are you saying you were mistaken when you told me you had taken 150 weeks and not 100 weeks? No!

Are you now saying that CLC is a good financial investment? No! You told me my holiday in the algarve would have cost me over £1000 for accommodation, No I did not! I've got it for under £600. Well done!

If its such a good deal, why can't people sell their membership (here's an example and as I demonstrated with a 30 second google search, Because as I have said on numerous occasions, it has only worked for us because we can take mutiple holidays and have been in it for the long haul.Note, this e bay example is not for a CLC membership so off topic although I am quite sure you will see some CLC examples not sold as well. They seem to sell better when put through reputable resale outlets. I could buy the same holiday for less without being committed to year after year of rising maintenance fees when in my experience rental fees have been coming down.I have proof and experience behind my 20 years of timeshare costs and in my case know that you are wrong!
If the memberships have any value, why won't Club la Costa buy back these memberships?Asked and answered many times, not a financial investment but one in good quality holidays in our case. I think you will find that all members would like CLC to have a buy back scheme.

If the memberships have no value to club la costa But they most certainly do! but they'd like to keep having the annual maintenance fee coming in, why won't Club La Costa allow memberships to be transferred without an enormous transfer fee??A good point and one that members have been complaining about. The cost should be a fixed lower one for administration and perhaps should be the same for transfer of 1000 points as it would be for 5000.

Anyway, as has been said before, I am not blinkered, I know that my holidays, like so many other people, have been good value because of the 20 year timespan just as I know that CLC are not good for everyone and need to clean their sales act up.:cool:

nicechap

I wouldn't want to be accused of mis-interpreting you. So just to be clear;

Maksipup,

You have had 150 weeks holiday.

It was not a good financial investment.

The price you gave me to buy 1501 points on the deleted thread was wrong.

You accept that people can't re-coup/ sell their memberships on the open market like through ebay

You believe that I am wrong in showing that I can buy the same holidays for less direct.

Club la costa will buy back memberships

You think Club la Costa should charge a single admin fee for transfer but they don't, they charge a commission based on how big an initial outlay you made.

maksipup

nicechap wrote: »

I wouldn't want to be accused of mis-interpreting you. So just to be clear;

Maksipup,

You have had 150 weeks holiday. Yes, my family and I have booked or taken 150 timeshare resort weeks away over a 20 year period. Some with CLC, some through RCI and some in weeks owned at resorts.

It was not a good financial investment. From the point of view of achieving a financial return which is what a financial investment Really is, no! In as much as it has saved me spend on holidays over 20 years, I have to say yes but it was not bought as a financial investment but an investment in holidays over a long period.

The price you gave me to buy 1501 points on the deleted thread was wrong. The price was one that was on offer at the time

You accept that people can't re-coup/ sell their memberships on the open market like through ebay No I do not accept that, I do accept that if they bought from CLC they will not get all of their money back, if they had bought on resale they probably could. I already provided examples on the last thread of multiple sales through reputable resale agencies. There have been so many buyers scammed for various high value products on e bay I am not surprised they have few resales.

You believe that I am wrong in showing that I can buy the same holidays for less direct. You have not shown that you could have bought equivalent of our 150 weeks away over the last 20 years and I would not expect you to try. On the other hand by experience, I can say authoritively that we have saved a considerable amount by going the route we did.

Club la costa will buy back memberships Already agreed they will not.

You think Club la Costa should charge a single admin fee for transfer but they don't, they charge a commission based on how big an initial outlay you made.Correct

I hope this clarifies everything in your mind.

nicechap

Not quite;

You said in post#49
If the memberships have no value to club la costa But they most certainly do!

But in post#51
Club la costa will buy back memberships Already agreed they will not.

So do the memberships have value to club la costa or not if they will not buy them back?

You claim they have a 're-sale' value, which I guess Club La Costa's commission eats into on the open market, is that why they rarely, if ever, sell on ebay (which has got to be the biggest re-sale market in the world?

marleyboy

Owning and Selling problems

Ownership has long been recognised by consumer organisations as a key area of consumer detriment, but only recently recognised as such by authorities. The principle causes of detriment are caused by the failure of traders to provide “owners” with sufficient control over the quality and costs of their ownership in a democratic environment resulting in:-


Rapidly increasing annual costs.

“Theft on a Grand Scale” said TCA in its survey of annual costs

Numerous tricks now being used to extract more money from owners:-

1. Where utility costs (electricity etc.) were previously included in management fees, a separate utility charge is now being made and the actual management fees are only increased by a modest amount to give the appearance of a low level of increase – the reality is that the two charges combined now amount to a major increase.
2. Utility charges being “notional” ie. being a standard charge unrelated to the measured consumption of the utility and clearly well in excess of the true costs – and totally unsupported with hard evidence.
3. Resorts claiming that the sinking fund is insufficient and requires “topping up” with a single, large payment. (“levy”)
4. Resorts claiming exceptional costs (which the developer should be bearing) but which are dumped on the owners.
5. Resorts claiming that an old, massive, debt to the management company exists from the owners and is now required to be repaid.
6. Resorts claiming that immediate repairs are required to keep the resort in good condition or to satisfy some (un- substantiated) requirement by health & safety authorities.
7. One resort (Loch Rannoch Highland Club) which effectively wrested control of the management from the developer (Macdonald Hotels) in 2003 found that the cost of running the resort was substantially less than Macdonald had previously charged.

The result of all these tricks has been to increase annual ownership costs two to three times faster than inflation.


The average increase each year for the past five years for a “basket” of over 200 resorts is almost twice the level of inflation.

But averages hide massive variations. Some smaller resorts have only increased by 5% over the a 10 year period when others, mainly those controlled by the larger traders, have increase by over 200% (ie. by a factor of three). One resort has never increased its fees in a 10 year period – another has increased them by over three times inflation every year.

Levies (additional charges) have gone from being the exception to being commonplace and in some cases have had the effect of more than doubling the annual cost in one year - a nasty surprise to those owners on fixed incomes. Levies are now so established that one resort justified its reason for applying a levy as “everyone else is doing it”!


Poor or non-existent resale values

Resale values of timeshare (and points) now fall into two distinct groups – those worth something and those that are worthless. And, with so many sellers now in the market, very few owners actually achieve a sale.

High season weeks in top quality resorts are still achieving actual (as opposed to “valuation”) resale values between 15% and 25% of the developers price. The majority of weeks achieve resale values of a few hundred Euro at best, many are completely worthless, despite having cost upwards of 10,000 Euro to purchase only two or three years previously.

Low or non-existent resale values are mainly caused by a lack of buyers – a problem caused by the collapse of consumer confidence in timeshare.

The “Millstone of ownership”

Caught in a trap between a worthless timeshare and an aggressive management company demanding payment of ever increasing fees, owners have nowhere to turn.

Many owners fall victims to the resale fraud, paying hundreds or thousands of Euro to a company that promises to sell their timeshare for as much as they paid for it – most owners are completely unaware of the true market price having been told by the salesman many years earlier “it’s a good investment, you’ll get all your money back when you sell” .

There are at least 20 groups of resorts now threatening to take owners to court for non-payment of annual fees. Most of these owners have attempted to sell their ownership without success and those who have been taken to court now find themselves with millstone round their necks for the rest of their lives - and perhaps the lives of their children also.

Spoilt holidays

As well as having their expectations dashed, timeshare holidaymakers now complain about the persistent, aggressive unwanted attentions of salespeople throughout their holiday.



Within mainstream timeshare industry itself.

More companies are now acting fraudulently, with more complex and clever frauds against more people that in 2004. And some of the newer entrants to the fraud game are those businesses which, until a couple of years ago, were regarded as being a respectable part of the mainstream timeshare industry

Examples:-

· At one UK resort the manager was believed to have stolen around one million Euro over a five year period. A year after the theft had been identified the timeshare owners were levied with almost exactly that amount so they effectively paid twice and the manager got away without any charge.

· The buy/sell scam has resurged after a few years of semi-dormancy. This was the one of the two frauds for which John Palmer was incarcerated – promising to sell an existing ownership if the consumer purchased a new one – only to end up with two timeshares. The scale of the scam is unknown but consumer detriment probably amounts to a few million Euro each year.

· The rental scam (the other fraud for which Palmer was convicted) where the trader promises to rent out the newly acquired timeshare every year to make a profit for the owner. Other than a pay-back in “year one” no more rental is paid to the owner.

· Investment fraud where the consumer is persuaded to “invest” in timeshare weeks which, claims the trader, will be resold at a profit within a few months. The resale does not take place leaving the “owner” with unwanted weeks and an obligation to pay annual fees or lose the “investment”. The scale of this fraud is large, probably amounting to 20 million Euro each year and appears to be spreading.



On the periphery of the industry

· The resale fraud, where timeshare owners are persuaded to part with money to a company claiming to have sold their timeshare (usually for a price five times greater than the true market price). No sale takes place. Whilst the average amount stolen from consumers is around 1,000 Euro, the large number of owners who have been caught – possibly over 25% of all owners – make the fraud enormous in real terms. And this fraud, perhaps above all others, has significantly influenced owners negative attitudes towards timeshare.

· A couple of new variations on the resale scam:-
· The owner is invited to attend a meeting (in Spain or the UK) to transact the sale of their timeshare. The real purpose of the meeting is to sell membership of a dodgy holiday club and the owner never receives any money for their timeshare.
· A company claiming to be lawyers extract money out of owners who have been caught in the resale scam. None of the promised “compensation” materialises.

· Telephone promises of holidays that never materialise despite the consumer having paid.

Almost all “peripheral” frauds on timeshare owners originate with a telephone call raising the question “how did they know I was an owner – and they know my resort”? Over the years TCA has received offers of owners lists in mistaken belief that TCA might want to acquire the lists and when samples were supplied it was abundantly clear that the lists emanated from within RCI. Whilst RCI would no doubt deny any involvement in these lists getting into the hands of fraudsters it does suggest that RCI security of sensitive data is inadequate. And lists from other sources (including holiday clubs) are also in circulation, probably “liberated” by a departing salesman planning a new career in fraud.

In a recent demonstration of American openness, Marriott Vacation Club International issued a public warning to its 200,000 owners about the possible misuse of the database which had been stolen form their Florida offices.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ayHEfJqqmRoJ:www.timeshare.org.uk/tr5_new.doc+club+la+costa+court+appeal&cd=27&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

antenna

What more would anyone considering buying timeshare or holiday points need to know other than the above post......but people are really stupid.....they think they know better.......sometimes i think they get what they deserve.
Everybody has heard that timeshare is a rip off,everybody has heard of it at one time or another but they choose not to remember..........why should you help these stupid greedy people?,yes,it is greed,they want something for nothing,like a "free" holiday............rant over..........but i will be back..

maksipup

nicechap wrote: »

Not quite;

You said in post#49
If the memberships have no value to club la costa But they most certainly do!

But in post#51
Club la costa will buy back memberships Already agreed they will not.

So do the memberships have value to club la costa or not if they will not buy them back?

You claim they have a 're-sale' value, which I guess Club La Costa's commission eats into on the open market, is that why they rarely, if ever, sell on ebay (which has got to be the biggest re-sale market in the world?

I would have thought that it was obvious that the memberships have value to CLC in that they can continue to receive membership fees and maintenance which would be lost otherwise! (As you seemed to recognise on post 48). The e bay issue I already answered with my opinion. Also do remember that we have been running in a recession where holidays are the last things on a lot of peoples minds just now.

A word of caution on your preferred method of booking villas on a one by one basis: The Daily Mail has an article today saying police believe the biggest UK Holiday scam to be the rise in numbers of people booking villas privately which are non existant.:(