How hot is too hot?

lorietta

I know there's no legal limit on temperatures, but the law does state a reasonable temeperature should be maintained.

My friend works in a bakery, which has ovens, as they cook pasties, ect, on site. Today, the temperature in the shop was 36 Celcius (96 Farenheight) and on saturday, it was 33 Celcius, but this was apparently measured at 5pm, so not the hottest part of the day. The shap has no air conditioning, as the system is broken, and the company are refusing to fix it at the moment as there are no funds.

I'm curious as to what point people feel a high temperature in the workplace becomes unreasonable, and if she's got any rights at all? At the moment she says she is ok, but one of her collegues is pregenant and has complained, and she is worried about what will happen if it gets even hotter.

Horace

There is no upper limit because if there was then people wouldnt be able to work in furnaces.

If the shop is unbearably hot maybe they can ask the employer to provide a fan?

stressedoutmum

If I'm right in thinking there is no upper temperature limit for heat - only if it gets too cold. Would her employer provide cold drinks and more frequent breaks ie say 5 minutes every hour or so just for a drink and quick rest. Do they carry out risk assessments on pregnant women at her place of work? Perhaps this is something she could raise in the assessment. Most decent employers would use common sense - is there any fans or would they buy a couple to use.

as0ta

All I know is that tonight is too hot.

paulwf

If it is 36C at 5pm in May clearly the manager needs to do something about this now otherwise how will you cope at midday in August? Air con should only cost £1-2k for a service (for the shop not for a larger area like a bakery), they will get that back in extra productivity.

HSE have a guide to temperature in the workplace, read the links at http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/ and take it from there.

But seriously, press for an air con service or at least for a quote...it might cost very little and if they can't afford it they either need to put their prices up or it sounds like they are on the verge of bankruptcy.

dickydonkin

Workplace welfare regulations only stipulate that temperatures of indoor workplaces should be 'reasonable' and despite the 16 degrees being mentioned, that is only guidance - not set in stone as obviously many workplace environments vary greatly due to the nature of the processes involved. The problems with thermal control in workplaces where hot processes take place such as the bakery described is a difficult one.

This guidance and approved code of practices from the HSE's website may help and there is also a link to the welfare regulations. This may also help.

There are of course other implications regarding the bakery as I would imagine that there are hygiene and other considerations. For example, it may not be acceptable to provide a drinking station within the production area as many food production companies do not allow any foodstuffs for consumption in certain areas.

As most body heat is vented through the head which could assist in cooling the body, this may not be relevant as most food production areas need staff to have their hair covered at all times which usually involves wearing a hat. Factor in any required personal protective equipment such as gloves for oven work or ear muffs for noisy machinery, Yes - I bet that workplace can get very very uncomfortable for the workers.

As for opening windows and doors to improve ventilation, this may also create contamination concerns due to airborne particles and in particular, flies, insects and even birds entering the premises casting feathers and droppings. Vermin (a bakery must be heaven for rats and mice) can also enter through doors that have been left open for added ventilation.

This problem however, can be alleviated by placing fine mesh over open windows and doors.

Fans and air con can also blow flour and other contamination around which can be inhaled or again, create a hygiene problem.

It is a difficult one for the employer and the workers due to the very nature of the operation and although I bet such a workplace was ideal in the recent harsh winter, it is of scant consolation during this hot spell.

Hopefully the links will provide you with more information that might be of help to you and your colleagues.

It will likely be engineering controls that will provide the most effective measures - but I suspect the employer will have to put up the price of his pies to pay for it!

At the moment she says she is ok, but one of her collegues is pregenant and has complained, and she is worried about what will happen if it gets even hotter.

Your employer should have amended any risk assessments in place (assuming there are any) to take into consideration the pregnant employee and act accordingly. This should be done as a matter of urgency as now your employer is aware of her situation. She (and indeed your employer) should read this and this .

lorietta

Thanks so much, for taking the time to reply, I will link my friend to this thread. I don't know about the company policy regarding pregnant women, so I will suggest that she gets her collegue to bring it up if she has a meeting like that.

I know the store manager has passed on the need for the air condiditioning to be repaired/serviced, and was recording the temperatures to explain why it was neccessary fot this to be done, but the business owners are the type that only appear interested in cutting costs and not their employies.

Looking at Dpassmores first link (thanks for such a detailed post btw) I think over 20% of the staff have felt they are too hot, it is only a small shop, employing about 10 staff and I know three of them personally, and they were all complaining about the heat on Saturday. I will tell them that they have a right to complain on health and safety grounds.

Thanks once again for all your help, I will pass on the suggestions you have made. I do think they are not allowed a fan in some areas because of health and safety regarding the food they are dealing with or something along those lines.

dickydonkin

jdturk wrote: »

lorietta wrote: »

Looking at Dpassmores first link (thanks for such a detailed post btw) I think over 20% of the staff have felt they are too hot, it is only a small shop, employing about 10 staff and I know three of them personally, and they were all complaining about the heat on Saturday. I will tell them that they have a right to complain on health and safety grounds.

And this is where the crux is, are your friends just moaning for the hell of it or are they moaning with a genuine concern!

That is possible of course as I think we have all had a moan or groan about something at work.

My first post was obviously geared towards a large industrial sized bakery but the small 'backshop' operation can also cause some of the problems I highlighted - albeit on a smaller scale but can be uncomfortable for the worker nonetheless.

Unfortunately during this difficult time for many businesses, just managing to survive is the key priority and costs for maintenance and repairs to seemingly non-essential equipment may be way down the list of priorities.

I use the word 'non-essential' in respect of operational and production work equipment that is vital for the functional aspects of the business.

For example, if a faulty part for the oven in the bakery was compromising the productivity of the business needed replacing, it is obvious that this would override any concerns a few workers have over getting too hot due to a faulty part in the air conditioning system.

If things are tight financially, I suspect that the bakery owner is not too concerned that the AC is not working as they can be pretty expensive to run - certainly in an environment such as a bakery.

That is unfortunate, but I can understand the reasoning for it- but what is disappointing is that it seems that the employer has apparently made no effort to rectify the problem.

What is a concern is the pregnant worker - the employer really needs to address her condition and ensure she is at no risk.

lorietta

Although it is a small shop, it is part of a chain that have stores all over South West England, and one in Spain, so really they should have the funds, because it is a larger operation that just one store.I have passed the information on, I don't know if any of them will act on it.

I don't know if they are complaining for the sake of complaining, or have genuine concerns, but I know the store manager was deliberately measuring the temperature as she felt it was too hot. I think they will take the issue further if they have to work in these conditions for more than a few days at a time, because it's just a few days, if that makes sense?

But if we get a propper heatwave then it will be useful so thank you.