She wants to move in England, I'm french

fenrirjk

Hi everybody,

This is my first message on this forum, and I need some help.
As I am French I may make some mistakes, so please excuse my english.

Here is my story.
I am French and had a relationship with a German girl 6 years ago.
My ex decided to separate with me just after getting pregnant.
Until now we manage to keep a good relationship in spite of the situation and I managed to visit my child regularly.
Until now we made a private arrangement and I was paying about 127€ (108 GBP) for my child, which is a really small amount for a child support for a child of 5 years old. On other hand, I spent around 150€ (128 GBP) each time I was visiting my child.

She lately decided to move to England, officially to continue her study there, unofficially, she has a relationship with an English guy there.

She now wants to recalculate the child support and it is legitimate as it is now really low.

My incomes are now about 1700GBP per month.
She is asking me to give her 265GBP for the child support as my child is turning to 6 years old, but she didn't take into account the visiting fees.

I want her to take into account those visiting fees and take in charge the difference as I shouldn't suffer from her decision to move to England, I want also her to take in charge a part of the fees I would engage if nothing would change as she is also responsible to help me seeing my child regularly.

I contacted the CSA and ask them for some help, but they told me we are not under their jurisdiction as we are both not English, so it would be either a private arrangement or a legal arrangement in front of the court.

I would like to now if those requirements are reasonable.
If not, what would be reasonable then?
If yes how can I convince her to make a private agreement following those requirements?
If we go to the court, which I would like to avoid, will they accept these suggestions and what should I expect ?

Where could I find help about this issue?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards.

Caz3121

It sounds like she has used the CSA guidelines to calculate 15% of your income but you are correct she cannot open a CSA case unless you are resident in the UK so she would need to go to court to get something official drawn up so a private arrangement would be better if you can agree.

How often do you incur the costs to see your child - can you total it up and average it out as a monthly fee and see if you can agree to a % share each

missbunbury

I can tell you how the CSA in the UK would calculate how much you should pay, which may help. The basic amount you'd be expected to pay is 15% of your net income, or £255 a month (assuming the £1700 is what you're left with after taxes).
If you have any other children living with you (either your own or a new partner's) your income would be reduced before doing the calculation by 15% for one, 20% for 2 or 25% for 3 or more children. (So if your new girlfriend had a child, the £1700 would be reduced to £1445 then 15% of that would be paybale as maintenance, so £217.
With contact costs, the law in the UK says they can be taken into consideration but it's done in a complicated way called a variation. Your contact costs are worked out on a weekly basis (so if you pay £100 for a plane ticket once a month, this equates to £23 a week you are spending.) This amount is then taken off your assessable income, but the first £15 a week is disregarded, so in the example above you would have £8 taken off your weekly income, which is £35 off your monthly income. The calculation would therefore be (£1700 - £35) x 15% = £249 payable in maintenance.
Obvously, if you are spending more it would make more of a difference.
I hope this helps you to negotiate a fair amount for everyone; it can't be easy having your child so far away.

fenrirjk

missbunbury wrote: »

I can tell you how the CSA in the UK would calculate how much you should pay, which may help. The basic amount you'd be expected to pay is 15% of your net income, or £255 a month (assuming the £1700 is what you're left with after taxes).
If you have any other children living with you (either your own or a new partner's) your income would be reduced before doing the calculation by 15% for one, 20% for 2 or 25% for 3 or more children. (So if your new girlfriend had a child, the £1700 would be reduced to £1445 then 15% of that would be paybale as maintenance, so £217.
With contact costs, the law in the UK says they can be taken into consideration but it's done in a complicated way called a variation. Your contact costs are worked out on a weekly basis (so if you pay £100 for a plane ticket once a month, this equates to £23 a week you are spending.) This amount is then taken off your assessable income, but the first £15 a week is disregarded, so in the example above you would have £8 taken off your weekly income, which is £35 off your monthly income. The calculation would therefore be (£1700 - £35) x 15% = £249 payable in maintenance.
Obvously, if you are spending more it would make more of a difference.
I hope this helps you to negotiate a fair amount for everyone; it can't be easy having your child so far away.

Thank you very much missbunburry. That's exactely this kind of informations I need.

So if we take into account my monthly fees and considerating that a flight ticket cost 100GBP, then the difference would be 6GBP I could get back for my visiting fees, which is really disappointing.

I thougth I could expect her to take in charge most of the fees as she is the one moving away and nobody forced her.

It would be unfair if my son, me and my relationship with him would suffer because of her decisions, cause I definitely can't afford to pay all the fees.

AnxiousMum

If, where the child lives now (as the courts there have jurisdiction) will do consent orders etc., has she applied for permission to the courts to move with the child to England? It is unlikely that it would be refused, but do they have a system where you could go to court for her to get the permission, you be granted visitation rights and minimum visits allocated to you per year, AND an order for shared assessment costs? Our family moved here for work reasons from Canada, and I'm responsible (via agreement and a consent order being filed in court) for 60% of all access costs - that being airfare between London and Vancouver. The dad is finally planning a visit here this summer as both boys will be working - and I will be responsible for 60% of his airfare - as it's part of the access costs. I really agree with you - I was the one who moved, and therefore feel it is my responsibility to ensure that his access didn't cost him any more per year than what he already spent on access (petrol etc. when picking them up, dropping them off). The other option, is if you don't want your daughter to be so far away, can you object to them moving and go for custody of your daughter yourself?

fenrirjk

Thanks AnxiousMum for your reply.
My child is a boy

60% of the costs would be reasonable, probably a bit more than I pay now for the costs, but then I could keep visiting my son as regularly as right now, which is already not so often: once per month.

Unfortunately I don't talk German, it's really difficult for me to find informations, but I know it's really protectionist for the mother, and I'm afraid they wouldn't care much about the visit costs or permission to move abroad. And I don't have parental responsabilities so it really sounds impossible.

Anyway, since she is going to move in England and live there, I was thinking it would be right to apply the english laws.

The other point is that she will still be a student and she will probably earn about 800GBP per month, so I don't know if I can expect very much from the court if ever we go there, I'm a bit scared actually.

I think it's not really reasonable for her to live there, but I don't know if student or not I can require her to take in charge those costs as it could be really expensive.

I don't mind if she moves in England with my son as long as it's fair for me and as long as nothing changes for my relationship with my son as well as financially.

I would be so happy to get the custody of my son, but I don't want to give him too much stress also. I have to think about it. The problem is that I don't have parental responsabilities as we were not married when getting our child, so I don't know if it's even possible for me to get the custody if she doesn't want.

Anyway, moving to England would be already quite stressy for him, so maybe living with me in France wouldn't be so much more stressy for him.

The other solution would be for him to take the plane by himself, with escort services from airway companies, but they told me he is to young to do it (5 yo) I think if he is well prepared it wouldn't be a probleme, but it's always the same: I'm afraid it's would be hard to convince them. It would still be expensive, but maybe more practical for everybody as he could stay at my home.

Anyway thank you for all your answers, I'm a bit lost and really need your help.

AnxiousMum

Sorry - no idea why I thought your child was a daughter! oops

You might want to check into a program called REMO or Interjurisdictional Orders - see if they have a program between France and Germany, or, once she moves here, see if they have a program between France and the UK. It allows you to apply for an order in France, and have an interim decision made there, and then made enforcable in a court here in the UK. That's usually used for child support/access costs, but you could also see if you can get access ordered that way as well?

Unfortunately here, alot of people will stop allowing the child and non resident parent to spend time together - and it's not uncommon for what appears to be mothers especially, to disallow the father to see the child. If you have an enforceable order, and your ex picks up on those ways here for whatever reason (boyfriend's family influence or whatever), then this could help you. Would be very easy if you could do a consent order or such, and have it registered in court there before she leaves - alot more amicable that way than one parent having to apply to court.

Hope this makes sense......and is helpful.

Oh, re children travelling alone - my two used to travel - first flight they were ages 5 and 7 - we used to pay an extra $30.00 per flight per child and they were accompanied and spoiled absolutely rotten by the flight crew the whole way. Depends on your child - but obviously first time flight would be better accompanied by mum or dad