cleggercon double dip here we come!

Spartacus_Mills

ILW wrote: »

In its most basic form, by creating a product or service, or adding value to an existing product or service and then selling it to someone who has the money and is happy to pay for it.

The Public sector also does create a service and adds value.

For me I pay my council tax but I derive value from the gritting in the winter, the street lighting, refuse collections and so on.

In a truly free market I would have no public provision only private. I appreciate ideologically some people like that idea (some of our new friends in government) personally I do not. I like public provision.

My issue is the bloated nature of the public sector and how do we truly derive the service we are getting is giving proper value for money. In the private sector (as long as it is not a monopoly or cartel) the market decides based on supply and demand. In the public sector I do not know what the measure is.

Really2

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

In the public sector I do not know what the measure is.

How much they are given.

PhylPho

Can somebody identify a still existent Socialist State benefit under which ninky is able to obtain a calendar free of charge?

It would help her appreciate that the period of political party broadcasts is over -- including deranged outpourings on behalf of New Labour whether by her or Mandelson.

Also over, by an amazing coincidence, is New Labour. . .

:j

chucky

PhylPho wrote: »

Can somebody identify a still existent Socialist State benefit under which ninky is able to obtain a calendar free of charge?

It would help her appreciate that the period of political party broadcasts is over -- including deranged outpourings on behalf of New Labour whether by her or Mandelson.

Also over, by an amazing coincidence, is New Labour. . .

:j

what a nice font

marklv

ninky wrote: »

with clegg going for jobs for the boys over policy or principles it seems that big cuts in public spending are sure to happen. how can this not create a double dip?

how are the people who lose their jobs as a result of spending cuts going to service their mortgage? and what about the business generated from public spending. what is going to replace that?

they've announced an 'emergency budget' in 50 days. let's hope it's a good summer. because winter is looking like it will be harsh.

I would not be too concerned. Cuts would happen under Labour as well, so I don't see a big impact. I'm curious to see what they are going to do about the infamous 'quangos' - my guess is that they will scrap them and merge the essential functions into existing government departments. As for the old chestnut of public sector pensions, this is something that is not top priority - they can kill this by imposing pay freezes which will, in effect, also limit future pension payouts. The two will balance each other out. They will also stop new joiners from receiving the defined benefit pension and introduce some kind of money purchase one. I doubt they'll do anything more drastic than that. With IDS in charge of Work & Pensions I don't expect anything earth shattering.

Pete111

Several posters appear to be implying that the current parlous state of the nations finances was outside Gordons control

Can they please let me know:

a) That this statement is false. Given he was in charge of them (in some form) for 13 years he does in fact bear responsibility.

b) That it is true and is therefore a damning indictment of his competance as chancellor and PM

Which is it?

PhylPho

Debts awaiting payment over the coming years which Brown kept off-the-books -- and thus do not figure in the "public" total of Uk National Debt -- include a Treasury estimated

£245,798,700,000

in payment of the £64 billion capital cost of New Labour's Private Finance Initiative.

There's also an unfunded £800, um, er. . . billion by way of Government and Public Sector pensions.

Add that lot to the "public" figure and it's easy to see why so many voters were horrified at any prospect of 12 more months of do-nothing-but-keep-on-borrowing-more.

The £6 billion in targeted cuts welcomed by BoE's King today is symbol, not substance, but it's a start. . .

It actually goes half-way towards making up for the £12 billion witlessly and pointlessly lost by New Labour on its crackpot VAT reduction idea.:(

Spartacus_Mills

PhylPho wrote: »

Debts awaiting payment over the coming years which Brown kept off-the-books -- and thus do not figure in the "public" total of Uk National Debt -- include a Treasury estimated

£245,798,700,000

in payment of the £64 billion capital cost of New Labour's Private Finance Initiative.

There's also an unfunded £800, um, er. . . billion by way of Government and Public Sector pensions.

Add that lot to the "public" figure and it's easy to see why so many voters were horrified at any prospect of 12 more months of do-nothing-but-keep-on-borrowing-more.

The £6 billion in targeted cuts welcomed by BoE's King today is symbol, not substance, but it's a start. . .

It actually goes half-way towards making up for the £12 billion witlessly and pointlessly lost by New Labour on its crackpot VAT reduction idea.:(

Far be it for me to defend them but on the VAT reduction they were right to do it. We have no guarantee without it we would have received the tax revenues we did and we have no guarantee that spending would have not dipped further without it. I know it was a small reduction on most spend items but it sent a signal. Also it has been used to make sneaky rises in alcohol, tobacco and fuel prices as when VAT was cut their prices remained the same, then when it went back up the price of alcohol, tobacco and fuel had the VAT rise added to it.

Ken Clarke supported it at the time as well and I trust his judgement more than young George.

Apart from the VAT side the rest of your post it is hard to fault.

chucky

PhylPho wrote: »

The £6 billion in targeted cuts welcomed by BoE's King today is symbol, not substance, but it's a start. . .

a start. it's no where near what needs to be done.

£6,000,000,000 out of £245,798,700,000 is a mere pin !!!!!.
it means nothing - not even a start it's a token gesture to try and make people happy

got to to love the sense of achievement over nothing.

When_is_the_reset?

For what it is worth, Gordon was a moron and he has a lot to answer for. It took 13 years for him and his mates to mess it up properly.

I think the Cons will clean it up eventually and will be hated for it.

History - round and round and round in circles.