Off work with stress, a way forward?

tarkjohn

My mother is currently signed off with stress for a few months. She recognises there are two main causes for this.

The first is that the work volume has increased and the resources have decreased in her department over the last year or so. She works as part of a small team within a large department, and both herself and another team member have expressed their concerns. The response has been there are currently no other staff who are sufficiently trained to perform the same role and they will be ok. To compound this, one member of the team works part time and is felt to receive preferential treatment in terms of vacation and activities performed within the role. They are on the same grade and have the same job description, yet seem to be able to select which tasks they perform.

The second is that she was passed over for early retirement. After applying, despite initial indications that she would be accepted and numerous attempts to get an update, the employer took nearly 3 months to confirm the request had been denied. Other applicants were told within 1-2 months and she hasn't been given the full reasons, other than it was rejected at a high level.

She has over nearly two decades of service and is approaching pensionable age, but no longer feels she can continue in this role.
My interpretation is that she has got herself set for early retirement and was looking forward to it because of the poor team dynamics and workload. It came as a great shock when her request was turned down and to compound this, they delayed the decision, seemingly without reason.

Before each visit to the doctor to review her fitness for work, she has suffered a panic attack at the thought she may be sent back to work.
She cannot afford to quit, so I fear a kind of stalemate may result where she will not want to return and they will not offer early retirement, maybe because they think she's trying to hold them to ransom over reason 2 above.

My questions are these:
- I understand you can be dismissed for incapacity to work. What would cause an employer to follow this route based on the scenario above?
- If she was offered another role in a different/team department, must she accept this? Would it have to at the same grade?
- She is meeting her team leader in a neutral venue. What should she expect from this meeting and what should she say?

Thanks in advance!

teabelly

Management won't want to deal with the problem. The question she needs to ask is when are the extra people that currently aren't trained in her work going to be trained and deployed. Just saying there is no one trained is not enough! She is clearly not ok so their assertions are wrong so they need to actually do something about the problem at hand rather than trying to ignore it.

What does her contract say about sick pay?

Her Dr is unlikely to send her back into work where the situation hasn't changed. They need to alter something for her to go back. Could she work part time? If it is an issue of work load then her job needs to be altered so that it isn't over loading her. If she does drop responsibilities then beware of them deciding she isn't doing the same grade of work and trying to down grade her.

She's better off looking for work elsewhere as clearly she wants out of this job and is gutted that she is stuck there until retirement.

She needs to make some kind of offer eg if they do x she will return. If she shows willing to return then it looks better than just staying off.

The other alternative is for her to stop caring that work is unfinished and just tell them tough titty if everything isn't done. They have provided inadequate staffing so it won't get done. Both of them in the department need to get a bit more bolshy and make sure something is done rather than just putting up with the usual management rubbish. When you have people go off sick with stress you have to pull your finger out and do something rather than pretending it isn't happening... but they probably won't so she should plan to stay off until her sick pay runs out and try and find another job in the meantime or another way of retiring early. If she just entrenches then maybe they'll offer her early retirement due to ill health but this is risky as she has wanted retirement but wasn't allowed so they may assume she's swinging the lead as she didn't get what she wanted.

jfdi

I was off sick a few years back (so not the retirement issue to factor into the equation) for exactly the same reasons.

What changed it was when a senior colleague of mine said 'There'll still be stuff in your In Tray when you drop dead - so stop stressing over it'.

For some reason that hit home.

So when I returned I used to ask my boss - when I had 101 urgent things, none of which could be dropped - 'OK, which of these is most urgent?'. Passing the buck on to them finally got them to realise I wasn't a magician - & eventually (!) work changed / people were trained / priorities were looked at seriously.

Hope your Mum sorts it out - it's not fun being in that position.

teabelly

If her illness is caused by the workplace then she will not get better or be wise to return until they have changed the workplace! Getting well involves staying away from work until they resolve the situation. Once the situation is resolved then the cause of stress is removed and what is left is the after affects of being stressed eg exhaustion, panic attacks etc.

If you go back when it is the same there is a high likelihood of the sickness returning and her going off again. If they won't change the workplace then it is stale mate. Stress at work is caused by bad management. If they had bothered to do something earlier then she wouldn't be off as it has been made clear to them that the situation wasn't acceptable. If they haven't done anything concrete already to address the situation it is highly likely they won't bother at all as they have already been asked but offered a weak excuse for the situation. Most managers would rather an employee was stressed out and off sick than dare admit they were wrong and change things. Managers see it as a sign of weakness to do anything about stress and many still haven't grasped it is a real issue that they can and should address.

That's why I said she should offer a return to work on a condition that would mean it was possible to return. If her workplace don't offer a safer working environment then she can't return can she?? It's up to her work place and management to sort out the issues to make it safe for her and her colleague. Ball is in their court. They have to do something to fix the situation.

teabelly

jfdi wrote: »

So when I returned I used to ask my boss - when I had 101 urgent things, none of which could be dropped - 'OK, which of these is most urgent?'. Passing the buck on to them finally got them to realise I wasn't a magician - & eventually (!) work changed / people were trained / priorities were looked at seriously.

Glad that worked for you. I tried that method when my workplace became intolerable. Boss would *refuse* to say what was important and would jump up and down insisting everything had to be done and that I wasn't asked to be doing 3 people's jobs when 2 had left and not been replaced and he was still expecting everything to be done! He'd say it was up to me so I'd make a decision on what was actually important then he'd be back moaning that something else should have been done but he had refused to say that his something else was more important! He was also one of the classic types that had no idea how long anything took and would turn up last minute demanding to have something done that would take days if there was nothing else to do....but potentially forever if there was as more urgent stuff always got in the way. He'd also change his mind on a regular basis on what was urgent. You'd get part way through something and discover he didn't want it or had suddenly decided something which 'didn't matter' was now life or death.

It seems to be a recurring theme. Immature bosses that can't understand they can't have everything they want and that get stroppy when anyone tries to have a rational discussion with them as to why they can't have a 3 month project in 2 weeks with a fraction of the staff required.

I tried every single stress and workload management technique there was to deal with the situation. Going off sick was the last resort. They still did very little and other colleagues have also been off sick for the same reasons so it wasn't just me.

Has anyone posted on here that has been off with stress of their workplace actually doing something constructive and helpful so they could return quickly?

dmg24

jdturk wrote: »

Nice to see you are pushing the negative side to being off long term sick, she should plan to stay of untill she is well, not untill sick pay has finished!

All too many people seem to confuse OSP with JSA!

Uncertain

dmg24 wrote: »

All too many people seem to confuse OSP with JSA!

Well, that is a super one-liner!

However, if the workplace situation is genuinely making the person ill then it is often the only option.

It is very easy to look in from the outside and say "if it is making you ill then resign and move on" (and in the abstract that may be good advice) but this often swaps one set of problems for another. Apart from losing income, while sick pay is still being received, you then have the hassle of dealing with ESA / ATOS / DWP / JSA which can make you lose the will to live!

If you have the financial resources to tell them where to shove it, take six months or more off, then make a fresh start after a career break or seeing the world then great - go for it!

Also, different people's minds work differently. Some can do this and move on, others will only "find peace" if they extract some restitution for the situation they felt made them ill.

tarkjohn

teabelly wrote: »

The other alternative is for her to stop caring that work is unfinished and just tell them tough titty if everything isn't done. They have provided inadequate staffing so it won't get done. Both of them in the department need to get a bit more bolshy and make sure something is done rather than just putting up with the usual management rubbish. When you have people go off sick with stress you have to pull your finger out and do something rather than pretending it isn't happening... but they probably won't so she should plan to stay off until her sick pay runs out and try and find another job in the meantime or another way of retiring early. If she just entrenches then maybe they'll offer her early retirement due to ill health but this is risky as she has wanted retirement but wasn't allowed so they may assume she's swinging the lead as she didn't get what she wanted.

Yes, I think this has been building up over a year or so. Unfortunately her boss seems to be weak and doesn't like confrontation, so it's difficult to discuss matters or raise grievances.

I fear that my mother is now in the mindset where she doesn't want to go back at all and the longer this goes on, the more difficult it will become.

teabelly

The rule of thumb is that once you've been off around 3 months or so then it starts to get hard to go back. Is there any way she could do some part time say 2 days a week? It would at least show willing and she should suggest strongly that any return to full time work would rest upon adequate staffing levels being provided.

If her boss is weak then she has no choice but to go above them if they can't or won't do anything. It is highly possible that the weak boss has pressure from above and lacks the balls to turn round and tell their management they will not tolerate members of their staff being made ill by company ineptitude and it just isn't acceptable. She needs to keep at her boss and ask what they are going to do to resolve the situation. It needs to be in writing and copied to the boss above and any HR dept so they can see she is doing something and is wanting to return but under reasonable conditions.