Another one of those benefits threads

carolt

SingleSue wrote: »

Actually, it is not that simple.

Some people are not working (in the official sense) and claiming benefits, as they are carers to someone who is disabled.

And how would you define 'faux disease'? How would you seperate those who are claiming genuinely for an illness or disability and those who are not as bad as they make out?

Sue, I think TBH you are a bit of a red herring in this whole debate - as you are not a standard single parent by any means - you are a carer rather than an average single parent with school age children.

There clearly need to be (and are) separate and different funding arrangements for carers, and no-one (least of all me) would suggest that all carers ought to go out to work full-time on top of caring for family members; that's clearly ludicrous.

But that doesn't mean that all single parents should be able, or encouraged not to seek work until their youngest is 7; for most parents, once their youngest starts school - or before, if they use childcare - they can and should be encouraged to return to work rather than live off benefits, the same as for any other person of working age.

Taxpayers shouldn't need to support people who can support themselves but can't be bothered.

I can't stress enough how different you are to that sterotype; you have children with needs meaning that you would find it impossible to hold down any 'normal' job, even part-time.

But the specifics of your situation mean I think it is misleading to apply your situation more generally.

SingleSue

Oh yes, I agree with you there Carolt...I was being my nitpicking little self again where a blanket expression had been used for benefit claimants.

MY situation is different (as much as I don't want it to be), as is the situation of other carers but when the blanket is applied to benefit claimants (with no demarkation of which benefit claimants), to get a job, I just can't help myself but to state that not all claimants are layabouts, some are carers, some are too ill to work.

I also agree that the thorny question of childcare does need to be addressed when it comes to disabled children (and also older children! Childcare here stops at 11), it is not good enough that childcare provision can say they provide for the disabled but in reality, they really don't or will only take on the very mildest of cases.

I did have the luxury of chosing if I returned to work or not after my youngest son was born, hubby was earning enough for me to stay at home (we had never been ones for finance, loans, expensive holidays, credit cards etc) with careful budgeting, but I chose to return to work for my own sanity and eventually, we could relax the belts a little more and start having more of the luxuries that two incomes brought.

I also returned to work when eldest was just 6 weeks old, only at times to fit in with hubby to begin with (early morning cleaner, evening/nights in a care home..despite never having been in those sectors before) and then when he was 14 months old, into an office job once more. Unfortunately (I actually think he was fortunate as he experienced so much being out and about with his peers), I relied on a private day nursery to provide care and had the bills to cover from my salary.

My work after eldest lasted until 2 weeks after I told them I was pregnant with my middle son, where they then posted my P45 to me saying I had effectively terminated my employment (by getting pregnant) and an employment tribunal followed which was no fun when you are 2 weeks away from delivery with a 3 year old in tow too!

So it is very possible for a single parent to work, it does take more effort, more organisation but it requires very reliable childcare.....but it is more possible for a parent in a partnership to work as you can take the more difficult shifts to cover as the other partner can do the childcare, something the single parent cannot do due to the usual 8-6 element of childcare provision.

carolt

Totally fair post, Sue, and I take your points re couples working shifts at the end, and re childcare issues post 11 (though I still think childcare for disabled children is a separate issue - though I agree one that does need to be addressed - as per my post above).

Clearly it is hard for single parents to find a job that fits in with family commitments - but it is also hard for all parents. I think we should be working at trying to help them into work though - for their own sakes, as much as for their children and for the taxpayer.

Otherwise the 'safety net' becomes more of a noose, preventing them from working when their kids are older, due to lack of experience, and effectively locking them out of the labour market for good.

sjaypink

carolt wrote: »

I totally agree; it isn't easy - but I objected to sjay's point that I was in some favoured position because I happened to be a teacher.

There's no happened to be about it.

My point was not that you happened to be a teacher. It was that you are a teacher. Regardless of how and why you are in that role, you work in one of the rare positions of part time, day time, term time employment.

It was what seemed to be an inability to look at the bigger picture, the solution of 'do as I do', in response to what is a far more complex issue, which I was responding to.

As for my post missing the reality of childcare, work, sacrifice etc, I really don't see it myself, I am fully aware of the problems, choices and consequences faced. Indeed my motivation to reply to your post was that you appeared to be lacking reality in your solution 'if I can work within school hours, so can anyone'.

I just think its important not to undermine issues faced by working mothers with the type of attitude displayed in your previous post.

There is absolutely no way, as of course you must realise , all mothers could just go out and find work for 9-2:30, Mon-Fri, for the 40 school weeks a year!

In recent years schools here have been receiving around 100 applications for every TA job that beomes available. Even the £30 a week dinner lady posts are highly sought after. I very much expect this situation is the same throughout the country.

Anyway, believe it or not, I have no real desire to go round in circles on this particular issue , just want to make clear exactly what my point was.

treliac

carolt and sjay - I take both your points/positions on this. Of course it's not possible for all mothers to be able to work around school hours.

Whe I was in my early twenties, I decided to re-train as I wanted to be prepared for being able to work around having children.

That may not be a possibility for many women and it costs money and effort, again not attainable for everyone.

So, although I can bemoan the fact that I've had to work hard to keep everything together and life didn't turn out as I had hoped for my family, I guess I was able to keep us on our feet.

There are very few of us who are able to achieve a completely win : win situation. It's a dilemma and I fear for so many of our children who aren't getting what they should in order to grow up in secure environments, prepared for adult life.

SingleSue

Unfortunately, I didn't have that foresight to re-train. I was happily married and found it easy to find work which fitted in with hubby having the children whilst I worked (and me having them whilst he worked), most of which was in my old sector or didn't need training for.

I wish I had had the foresight, it would have made things a damn sight easier now, although at the time, I believed I had found the win win situation...it's only since we have divorced that I have realised I was all rather short sighted about it.

treliac

SingleSue wrote: »

Unfortunately, I didn't have that foresight to re-train. I was happily married and found it easy to find work which fitted in with hubby having the children whilst I worked (and me having them whilst he worked), most of which was in my old sector or didn't need training for.

I wish I had had the foresight, it would have made things a damn sight easier now, although at the time, I believed I had found the win win situation...it's only since we have divorced that I have realised I was all rather short sighted about it.

Things happen that we don't expect and can't anticipate. If you were in a good and satisfying job (which I wasn't) with hours which worked out alongside your hubby's, you would have thought you'd done what you needed to.

None of us know what's around the corner.

P.S. What are you thinking of doing after your degree Sue?

SingleSue

My ultimate aim is to go into shipping law...so combining my old career with the law degree and a more specialised area than I was in before.

treliac

SingleSue wrote: »

My ultimate aim is to go into shipping law...so combining my old career with the law degree and a more specialised area than I was in before.

Sounds good! I'm sure you'll get there with your determination.

carolt

sjaypink wrote: »

My point was not that you happened to be a teacher. It was that you are a teacher. Regardless of how and why you are in that role, you work in one of the rare positions of part time, day time, term time employment.

It was what seemed to be an inability to look at the bigger picture, the solution of 'do as I do', in response to what is a far more complex issue, which I was responding to.

As for my post missing the reality of childcare, work, sacrifice etc, I really don't see it myself, I am fully aware of the problems, choices and consequences faced. Indeed my motivation to reply to your post was that you appeared to be lacking reality in your solution 'if I can work within school hours, so can anyone'.

I just think its important not to undermine issues faced by working mothers with the type of attitude displayed in your previous post.

There is absolutely no way, as of course you must realise , all mothers could just go out and find work for 9-2:30, Mon-Fri, for the 40 school weeks a year!

In recent years schools here have been receiving around 100 applications for every TA job that beomes available. Even the £30 a week dinner lady posts are highly sought after. I very much expect this situation is the same throughout the country.

Anyway, believe it or not, I have no real desire to go round in circles on this particular issue , just want to make clear exactly what my point was.

I'm not really clear why you think that because I currently work as a teacher I am incapable of understanding what it is like to do any other job. I have done plenty of other jobs. Teaching is what I happen to do now, to fit around my kids' needs. It's not the only way. Childcare exists. Non-teaching posts in schools here are certainly not as sought-after here as where you live, although I don't feel qualified to pronounce on the entire country. Certainly nothing like 100 applications here. Maybe because local pay levels here are higher?

Many mums I know run their own businesses, so set their own hours.

There are many ways of fitting one's working life around one's kids.

To say that is not to "to undermine issues faced by working mothers" - I agree it is really hard for working mothers, and that makes me angry, not only for the women concerned, and for their children, but also for society as a whole; I think a greater focus on life-work balance for everyone - both parents - woluld have a very positive long-term effect on society as a whole and on those children in particular.

I wish there was an easy solution to this. I certainly wasn't suggesting that everone of child-bearing age became a teacher. I was just trying to suggest that there were many possible ways for people to find work to fit in with family commitments. It is a struggle, but that applies whether you are a single parent or a couple. But I think it is more contructive to look at the options which are there than deny that any exist.

As you can probably guess, I 100% agree with lynzpower, who has said elsewhere I think, that high house prices are the real enemy; if they were not so ludicrously high by historical standards, more parents could afford more time to spend with their children, instead of having to work in every spare minute to pay off the mortgage/pay off the rent.

Here's to lower house prices and greater moves towards a healthier life-work balance FOR EVERYONE. :beer: