big problem with motorcycle loan

bartonski

AHH.. i just spent an hour writing a post which just got deleted so i'll explain in brief. I took out a rider loan for a motorbike last year. Before taking the bike home i changed my mind. Dealer was fine with this for a small fee i signed a new agreement for a rider loan for the cheaper bike.

A month later i was debited for the first bike i had cancelled. I spent the next month calling blackhorse and the dealer but both were not willing to to sort it out. Blackhorse had no record of the new bike and the dealer said that they did. Out of frustration i left it for them to sort out.
Few months later the dealer called me asking me to come to the shop to re sign the contract as the one i had signed previously was out of date. Apparently they had made a mistake and though they had sent the papers to blackhorse but didnt. i didnt believe it either! I explained to him that i had already sold the bike as i had lost my job a few weeks after i signed the contract. As it was a rider loan (a kind of personal loan) i had a right to do so.
I wasnt sure about signing again as the APR was higher adding a few hundred pounds to the total payment. I insisted the dealer spoke to blackhorse while i was in the office. they both told me that the contract was obviously the same excpet for the difference in APR which the dealer would pay for being their fault. Content that all was ok i singed the papers.

A few months later i was having trouble finding a full time job so missed two payments. I spoke to blackhorse who told me that they would reclaim my bike if i did not keep up payments. Came as a bit of a shock to me as apparently the new papers i had signed were for a hire purchase loan. As i had sold the bike before i signed those papers the guy from blackhorse was shocked too.

We tried to figure out what had happened and came to the conclusion that the dealer had sold blackhorse a hire purchase contract worth nothing for 8k. The dealer realized that they were in trouble when i told them i had sold the bike. As they had screwed up the initial contract i guess they needed to cover their asses but i dont understand why they changed the type of contract. I'm sure thats illegal. And whats even worse is that they lied about it saying it was the same, I would not have signed it if i knew it wasa hire purchase agreement even if i still had the bike. as far as i was concerned i agreed to a rider loan on the bike. Anyway..signing a new contract for a bike that i didnt have doenst make any sense.. Where does that leave me?? Blackhorse wants 8k and im broke. I dont want to speak to the dealer after the way they screwed me around. Isnt the hire purcahse agreement void of there is no bike to hire? help!

bartonski

so i guess my questions are... can a contract be changed by one party after it has been signed and agreed to by all parties concerned.
If not then the original contract still stands. If that is void as it was out of date by the time blackhorse recieved it. there is actually no contract for the bike and i owe the dealer for the bike and the dealer needs to pay blackhorse back.
If i didnt agree to buy the bike directly from the dealer and i ended up with it through their mistakes did i brake the law by selling it??
will i have to pay the dealer or honda an 8k lump sum?
Shall i give myself up at the local police station? im really confused!

molerat

I think you need to seek advice from CAB on this as it is a complete mess. The contract has not been changed, the only contract that exists is the last one. You have possibly unknowingly sold something that you did not have full title to due to the incompetence of the dealership. The HP agreement was for something that was not in the possession of the dealer or yourself. This could possibly turn bad for the curent owner of the bike as well because it is the subject of an HP agreement. Hopefully someone with a bit of in depth knowledge will be along shortly.

One quick thought. Have you got copies of any of the original contracts, these could be used as evidence or leverage.

bartonski

hi yes i do. also blackhorse told me they have record that the contract was a rider loan also.
when i sold the bike it was under a rider loan agreement so i was within my rights.only after 3 months did i unknowingly sign a new contract for a hire purchase loan. And i really cant remember who the guy was too!

bartonski

just an update, have tried to contact the dealer but they dont return my calls and are always to busy to answer them. live too far away now so no chance of going myself. Blackhorse threatening to reposess the bike which is impossible as i dont have it and now say they want the full ammonut paid which is not on as my agreement should be a rider loan and the one i signed is null and void. cant find any solicitors who will deal with this and the CAB are really stumped! argghh

Weirdlittleman

So you signed an agreement without reading it properly and one that you cant comply with.

grey_lady

So to recap you signed one agreement and assumed it was cancelled when you signed a different one for a cheaper bike.

BH couldnt find the second agreement and assumed the first was still valid. You then signed a new HP agreement (not knowing it was HP as the bike was sold) then missed two payments and now they want to reposses.

I'm guessing that you didnt use the money from the sale of the bike to repay any of the loan and it seems like you're not in a position where you can pay the whole amount back.

Unfortuantely there's a good chance that they will attempt repossesion from the new owner, so you could well have landed them in it. The best way to prevent that would be to make up the missed payments and to carry on paying it every month.

But if you can't make the monthly repayments and had already sold the bike when you signed an HP loan and didnt know the type of loan had been changed...I think you're best course of action would be to phone Consumer Direct on Monday, they should be able to refer the case to your local trading standards who might be able to intervine on your behalf.

If you can get the agreement type changed so that it isnt a HP agreement then you can offer to make reduced payments to Black Horse until you can afford to up the amount again.

The alternative is to do nothing but not only will they probably reposses they will sell the bike for a fraction of what you owe and still come after you for the remainder of the amount outstanding, and the new owner probably wouldnt be to happy either. Really think that Consumer Direct is your best bet.

bartonski

thanks for the replies - the way i see it blackhorse dont have anything to do with the actual bike. they were sold a worthless contract under false pretences by the dealer. therefore their clam is with the dealer not the new owner or myself. the dealer has a claim with me but they dont seem very eager to contact me.

Weirdlittleman wrote: »

So you signed an agreement without reading it properly and one that you cant comply with.

Yes that was a big mistake but i did ask if it was a exact copy of the previous agreement that they had lost otherwise i would not have signed it. I even spoke to a guy from blackhorse on the phone in the dealers office so i could be certain that all was above board so i really dont know why they dont have any notes at blackhorse about phone calls etc!

The only difference was the apr which the dealer said they would compensate for as it was their mistake. To be honest the print is so fine, i only found it after reading a couple of times.

They didnt tell me for a reason and i think it was because my credit rating was affected by the initial payments for the wrong bike not being made, which blackhorse told me to not to pay. And i think with that credit score the dealer could only get me a hire purchase loan with a higher apr%. I guess they though by not telling me nobody would find out therefore covering their backs.

I think selling a loan agreement to blackhorse and myself knowing the situation and knowing it was not possible if the bike had been sold is probably illegal. But if blackhorse never recieved the original agreement for the bike and the dealer accepted payment from blackhorse it would mean they would have to pay the money back to blackhorse and try to get the money for the bike from me through the courts..being their only option i guess.

Thanks for your advice but blackhorse cannot persue the new owner as the contract i signed was basically void. They do not own the bike becasue at the time of signing the loan there was no bike fo them to buy from the dealer their only option is to get their money off the dealer. The dealer must either take the bike back or get the money off me.

bartonski

ps.. i sold the bike to pay rent and overdue bills. three months later after two missed payments still not in full time work i contacted blackhorser to arrange a different payment plan. thats when i was told about the agreement. As far as i was concerned i was within my rights to sell the bike for my own purposes and it it didnt make any sense to me at the time to pay off part of the loan with the money from the sale when other things were more pressing. It shouldnt make a different in this case

bartonski

wierdlittleman - i dont understand what you mean by a loan i couldnt comply with.

magpiecottage

Without going into the details of who is responsible for what, you can make a complaint to the dealer under the Consumer Credit Act 2006 if you feel they have acted improperly.

They have eight weeks to resolve it to your satisfaction. If they can't then you can take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service as soon as they have issued their "final response" if they do not get it into the post within eight weeks if sooner.

Keep a copy of the complaint letter and get proof of posting (free from the Post Office) so the Financial Ombudsman Service accepts that the eight weeks have passed (the dealer probably has no clue about these rules).