'Should we switch to proportional representation?' poll discussion

Gareth_Lazelle

Gareth_Lazelle wrote: »

I don't think any new parliament would even consider FPTP any more - what is Iraq using these days?),

Found an answer:

Iraq is a parliamentary democracy governed under a constitution that was ratified in 2005. The president, who is head of state, is elected by the Council of Representatives. The government is headed by the prime minister. The bicameral legislature consists of the 275-seat Council of Representatives, whose members are elected by proportional representation, and a Federation Council, whose membership had not been defined as of late 2007. Administratively, the country is divided into 18 governorates.

I wonder whether they considered FPTP. Maybe they didn't think that they would get a system proven to be non-proportionate past the voters,

pro2

ELECTORAL SYSTEMS: THE SCIENCE BIT

The British Academy website at britac.ac.uk has a report on the different electoral systems already in use in the UK eg for the Scottish Assemlby.

stevemcol

If it doesn't help keep the Tories out I'm not interested.

Dave_Gould

Gareth_Lazelle wrote: »

Found an answer:
I wonder whether they considered FPTP. Maybe they didn't think that they would get a system proven to be non-proportionate past the voters,

I remember they thought a PR system would be an easier sell ("you want to give who power?!?") but also to help to bring a much-divided country together a little bit.

wildthing01

enabledebra wrote: »

One of the unknowns is how people would actually vote under PR. Currently we vote against the party we don't want rather than voting positively for who we do want. I don't think anyone knows for sure who the British support. For example, I am a Green party supporter but I've never voted for them and no one collecting statistics knows that they are my preference- why on earth would I vote for them under the current system, I don't live in Brighton. So predictions of what PR would mean are in terms of results are pretty meaningless at the moment. In any case, although I am fervently anti Tory, if PR gave them power then that's democracy and I'm all in favour of that even if a party I hate ends up in goverment. I'm not a bad loser so long as the fight is fair.

but this is the whole reason parties like the green party never get anywhere - because people that would like to vote for them don't. i know many other people vote tactically, but, and maybe i'm just naive (i said before i'm a dunce at politics), but i've always voted positively FOR the party i want in power, because i feel that even if they don't get in, at least i've registered my interest in them, the candidate is less likely to lose their deposit and they will feel more inclined to try again next time.

if everyone votes for a main party because they think their smaller party won't get in, then we just get a self-fulfilling prophecy - the smaller parties WON't get in. if everyone in brighton had done that, then the green party would not have got their first seat in parliament - ok, it's only one seat, but it's more power than they've had before and now they have more of a voice, more publicity for their views etc.

there's altogether too much negativity in this country - people think 'what's the point?', so they vote in a negative rather than positive way, and then we end up with the same old c**p we've always had.

wildthing01

just as a post-script - this is also i think the reason why all the polls were very pro-lib dem/nick clegg, inc the MSE poll about who people would least like to see in power, yet the lib dems still came 3rd - people were too scared to put their money where their mouths were.

Chomerly

MSE_Lawrence wrote: »

Poll Started 10 May 2010:
Proportional representation would mean the seats won are in proportion to the vote share – yet the argument against is it would likely lead us to permanent hung parliaments.

It has nothing to do with permanent hung parliaments. It's about keeping the choice between the 2 main parties. Those being Labour and Conservatives.

If we did have a proportional representative voting system it would mean that smaller parties like UKIP, The Green Party and the Lib Dems could become serious contenders in the race for PM.
Instead, by having a first past the post system and the AV system it allows for the choice of either Labour or Conservatives. Keeping the most likely outcome between the two will give each of them a near equal chance at power with minimal votes given.

I for one wouldn't call it democracy. I would call it an illusion of choice.

[Deleted User]

I understand the 'constituency link' argument, but I can't help wondering how meaningful this is. I'm not sure how many people could tell you what constituency they live in or who their MP is, and when you add boundary changes into the mix (and the Tories are planning some fairly radical boundary changes in this Parliament) the 'constituency link' case does seem rather weak.

Besides, we once had multi-member constituencies in the UK (the last were abolished in 1950), and many of us have multi-member council wards and it doesn't seem to trouble us (though it'd be better if they were both elected at once by STV, rather than one year apart under FPTP).

jackieglasgow

enabledebra wrote: »

One of the unknowns is how people would actually vote under PR. Currently we vote against the party we don't want rather than voting positively for who we do want. I don't think anyone knows for sure who the British support. For example, I am a Green party supporter but I've never voted for them and no one collecting statistics knows that they are my preference- why on earth would I vote for them under the current system, I don't live in Brighton. So predictions of what PR would mean are in terms of results are pretty meaningless at the moment. In any case, although I am fervently anti Tory, if PR gave them power then that's democracy and I'm all in favour of that even if a party I hate ends up in goverment. I'm not a bad loser so long as the fight is fair.

I agree entirely with what you are saying here. As a Scot, I choose to vote Green in the Scottish Government elections in the hope that a candidate will gain a seat under the PR system, but in national or local elections I vote for the person I expect to make the best job of being MP/councillor out of the big parties, as I know I have more chance of affecting that outcome, than by voting green on those elections. If they were also PR elections, I would possibly also choose to vote Green, as I think they party have a lot of valid viewpoints which represent a lot of my own beliefs, and lifestyle.

A.Jones

> If we did have a proportional representative voting system it would mean that smaller parties like UKIP, The Green Party and the Lib Dems could become serious contenders in the race for PM.

If there was full PR, then the BNP (who got the fifth largest vote this time, behind the big three and UKIP, with almost double the Green Party's vote) should have the equivalent of 12-13 seats in the current Parliament.