gross misconduct and suspension advice please

pictish

Just a little update, I went ahead and handed in my notice along with a statement for the investigation which lists exactly what happened that day, the inconsistant treatment in bringing the charge compared to what normally happens with timesheet errors.
I have had no contact back from tham at all now, the last letter I recieved from them was over 3 weeks ago stating I was suspended on full pay, I am only allowed to contact one manager and am not allowed near the store.Yet the manager wont talk to me as he says its nothing to do with him any more.
So I dont know if they have gone ahead with the case against me or accepted my notice. Head office wont speak to me and the HR area manager wont return calls.
Not sure what to do now.

dickydonkin

pictish wrote: »

With regards to the H&SE, I have contacted them, their guidance clealry states it should have been included in the accident book, but that is not law.
They passed me through to their RIDDOR team specialist who stated it should have been passed to them as well, that is apparently an offence.

sorry about the posts I keep getting errors when submitting, think I have to agree with the walkaway advice now, 6 other members of staff have also left recently due to the new management. It is a shame as the store team was made up of mainly older people, who were ex-tradesman and worked really well together, they are now being replaced by people who have no DIY or product knowledge at all. An example the current attitude of the new management is that one of the managers recieved an award for being one of highest scored in the company for staff engagement, she was given a dressing down in front of staff for this being a bad thing and she was clearly too friendly with staff to score so high.

thanks for your help
garry

As regard to RIDDOR, your employer is required to report any accident/incident that results in an employee losing more than three days off work. There are many other stipulations - in particular relating to various types of injuries (irrespective of time lost), but I will attempt to apply the rules in respect of your situation prior to the disciplinary stuff.

It would seem your injury should have been reported under RIDDOR regultions and this should have been reported within ten days of the accident occurring.

But let's look back prior to your contact with the chemical that caused your injury.

Your employer should have informed you of the various hazards and risks within your workplace that you could be exposed to. This may have been through an induction process when you started and/or continuous training in your employment.

As for the chemical that caused the injury, your employer should have in place a risk assessment for the chemical involved. This is a requirement under the Management of Health & Safety at Work Regulations but more specifically, the Control of Substances Hazard to Health Regulations (COSHH).

There should also have been a safe system of work in place to deal with any spillages of chemicals that occur with (ideally) the provision of spillage kits to contain the substance and appropriate personal protective equipment as a supplementary safety measure to protect the person(s) dealing with the spill.

Furthermore, you should have been given specific information on the chemical involved and the preventative measures in place to avoid contact or injury.

I have a suspicion they may have been lacking in the above respects and it would seem they are attempting to sweep this under the carpet because the reality is that it is likely that the company have been negligent.

As for not investigating the cause of the accident and not allowing the accident to be documented, this is unacceptable behaviour and the HSE would certainly take a dim view of this situation.

You did not state the name of the company - nor should you - but there is one large DIY chain that has an unenviable record in respect of health & safety to customers and staff. This company has a Big Quota of stores throughout the UK.

If they are becoming arsy with you, you should remind them of their many duties to which they have failed miserably in respect of health & safety.

I suspect they are aware of this and it is possible you are being made a scapegoat for their management failings.

I would certainly see a solicitor for 1) Claiming for damages due to your injury likely caused by the company's negligence 2) To ensure you are not going to be dismissed unfairly.

The accident book - Did you ever get to enter your injury? Was the injury definitly caused by work? The suggestion you had reactions to medical treatment after a rash suggests maybe not

The OP has indicated that the accident was caused at work and where is the logic in stating that because the OP had a reaction to medical treatment after a rash is an indication the injury was not work related?

He has also clearly indicated that he was NOT allowed to enter the injury in the accident book.

HO87

dpassmore wrote: »

The OP has indicated that the accident was caused at work and where is the logic in stating that because the OP had a reaction to medical treatment after a rash is an indication the injury was not work related?

Precisely. The "but-for" test. But for the injury suffered as a result of the exposure to the chemical the OP would not have had to have had medical treatment and suffered an adverse reaction as a result.

Does the OP have any evidence of other accidents being dealt with in the same way?

pictish

There was a crush injury to another member of staff, where the manager told him he didnt know where the accident book was when he was asked for it, he had to get another manager to fill it in 3 days later[ it was an online form and had been for almost a year].
They cant deny I asked for my injury to both be investigated and logged as the refusal to do so and their reasons why are in the account of the disciplinary they gave me for being off. Their reason being that the doctor did not test every product in the store I handled that day and the fact that I did not have to attend hospital straight away. The manager actually said he got this info from head office. HSE say its bollox, it should have been recorded and reported. I did take pictures of the injury though before it got really bad, it shows classic signs of an alkali burn.

UnderPressure

I am so sorry to hear of this story, the company involved and it can be realistically 1 of 3 should be really ashamed of themselves, the way you have been treated is outrageous.

I can offer anything more than my sympathies unfortunately, if I were you though (and I never thought I would recomend this to anyone but hey ho ) I would be contacting 1 of these vulcher no win no fee people and taking them to the cleaners for your accident at least that way you may have a chance of gaining some financial recompense.

I hope it all turns out ok for you and good luck with the travelling onwardas and upwards

mayb_2

Once you have left the company I am not sure that they can pursue a disciplinary procedure so you have not actually been dismissed.

As you have handed in your notice you do have to consider whether you are now claiming constructive dismissal. This is a hard one as the onus is on you to prove it was as a result of some action constituting the last straw and leaving you with no choice. The notice must be registered fairly quickly after a specific event to qualify as a 'last straw'. There is a lot of info on the net - have you tried such sites as http://www.got-the-boot.com/

I think you should pursue the injury claim under the circumstances and check whether you need to also pursue this as a constructive dismissal claim too. However, you are on a long and difficult road unless you can get some legal support. There are larger Citizens Advice Bureaus who have access to legal assistance so it may be worth checking what is available in your area.

Always keep in mind that Tribunals are unpredictable places and they are only interested in the law rather than how you feel about things. If your company are going through the motions that is probably all they need to do to cover themselves within the law as regards to your timesheets etc. In effect if the time sheets are found to be incorrect they can legitimately claim that you made false claims and dismiss you on those grounds. It doesn't really matter if they are treating other people differently - the Tribunal will look at the circumstances and decide whether another 'reasonable employer' would have dismissed you in the same situation. If the Judges believe they would - purely their own opinion - then you are fairly dismissed under the law.

Not trying to be negative, but having had the shock of realising just how unjust a Tribunal can be, I would not want to see anyone else going through the ordeal I was put through. If you use a no win no fee solicitor you may well see any financial gains cut in half.

You do need advice on the strength of your claim under the law and the likely hood of suceeding at tribunal and I think you should check it out asap.

HO87

Agreed. Don't waste time and money going to a solicitor. Give ACAS a call on 08457 474747. Good, no-nonsense solid advice from people who do know what they're talking about.

dickydonkin

pictish wrote: »

There was a crush injury to another member of staff, where the manager told him he didnt know where the accident book was when he was asked for it, he had to get another manager to fill it in 3 days later[ it was an online form and had been for almost a year].
They cant deny I asked for my injury to both be investigated and logged as the refusal to do so and their reasons why are in the account of the disciplinary they gave me for being off. Their reason being that the doctor did not test every product in the store I handled that day and the fact that I did not have to attend hospital straight away. The manager actually said he got this info from head office. HSE say its bollox, it should have been recorded and reported. I did take pictures of the injury though before it got really bad, it shows classic signs of an alkali burn.

First and foremost, it is not for the Doctor to 'test' every product in the store that day - or any day for that matter and as for not attending the hospital straight away as a reason for not investigating, recording or reporting the matter is an unbelievable statement to make by your former employer.


As I alluded to earlier in this thread, there should have been a COSHH risk assessment relating to the chemical you had contact with. There should also be available a Material Safety Data Sheet provided by the manufacturer or supplier of the product.

Both would indicate how to avoid coming into contact with the chemical and also provide vital information on what procedures to take if you do.

This documentation is potentially invaluable to a medical professional who is dealing with an injury - particularly when chemicals have been ingested.

There seems to be either a systemic failure or a cavalier attitude (or indeed both) to the safety and welfare of your now former employers staff.

mayb has correctly highlighted the potential pitfalls of proceding with constructive dismissals and taking an employer to tribunal.

You could decide however, to pursue a claim for your injury.

My cousin's wife had an almost identical situation to your own that related to a chemical burn. There was no systems or assessments in place just like yours and after denying liability, her former employer paid out eventually.

Unfortunately, this was a protracted ordeal so if you do decide this course of action, be prepared for a drawn out battle.

If you just wish to draw a line under the whole matter, you could just move on to another job (not easy I know) but leave a 'parting shot' by mentioning your experiences to the local HSE office.

They have likely breached RIDDOR,COSHH, and H&S Management regulations and I suspect there will be other breaches that would come to light with a safety inspection no doubt.

pictish

the way stock comes into the stores is in giant metal cages, these are never marked with COSH stickers and are mixed cages, in that they can contain anything from the entire store. The packing of these cages is done in a very random manor damages are frequent and in the case of paint cages spillages are also common due to the contents being crushed. It is also pretty common to not be able to actually open the side doors on them due to damage or the items collapsing onto the doors which mean you have to reach in over the top to get boxes out.
In this case there was several boxes of superconcentrated weedkiller in liquid form where the tops had been knocked off and the contents had soaked through the entire cage.
1 box was found the first day and I noticed the second day that the floor was scarred where all the boxes had been placed overnight and on checking found another box with damaged bottles. This stuff is really nasty it actually damaged the concrete floor.

Freddie_Snowbits

On reading this post, I would say there an inherent lack attitude to the safe carry and transportation of chemicals by this company.

Good Luck