Police clash with Greeks protesting austerity measures. Coming to a city near you?

Rochdale_Pioneers

A._Badger wrote: »

Is that a wishlist, Rochdale?

No, a nightmare. Forget party politics and look at the economics. The IMF, OECD and various nobel-laureate economists have warned against what Osborne wants to do. No other solvent government is planning to do it. Tax cuts for the uber-rich, tax cuts for the banks AND pay cuts/mass redundancies for the public sector and the unions getting upset isn't exactly a shocking prediction is it?

And remember that the economy tanking, cash being spent on tax cuts and no tax rise on business all mean more tax raised on everyone else. The Greeks are rioting because they don't see why ordinary people should foot the bill for a mess caused by the bankers. The Icelandics did the same. People here are already very unhappy with bankers getting big payouts whilst its tight for the rest of us. And thats with a UK economy growing faster than the Eurozone and lower unemployment than the Eurozone.

What happens when the economy goes into reverse, people see the people they blame for the mess getting rich and them having to suffer? We've been here before in the early 80s remember - the last time we saw big tax cuts for the rich and big cuts for the rest.

treliac

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

No, a nightmare.

Do you know the nice Mrs Duffy? There's a few as says she is the deciding factor on who'll win the election.

A._Badger

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

No, a nightmare. Forget party politics and look at the economics. .......

You start, Rochdale. What you've done is outline a Leftist view of what the Tories will do and what you believe will be the consequences.

I have no brief for Cameron or Osborne but you could just as easily sketch a doomsday scenario of Brown, or the vastly overrated Clegg, trying to maintain public spending and the client state and bringing the temple down around everyone's ears, in much the same style.

But that's all it would be. A sketch based on a political Weltanschauung.

wymondham

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

We can joke about riots but it could happen here. Again.

Here's the scenario. The Tories take power. The Tories pass their slash and burn budget. The economy tanks as predicted by the IMF, OECD and assorted Nobel-laureate Economists. An even bigger cut is needed.

So the public sector gets eviscerated. At the same time money is found to cut taxes for people earning 6 figures, for messers Osborne and Cameron in IHT, for big banks via Corporation Tax, and big business gets its NI cut. And fires people anyway.

Because the economy is crashing, tax revenues drop again. With money being given away at the top, that means big cuts in spending AND big tax rises for the people below the median line. What people doesn't seem to have been saying about the disconnect between the IFS et al saying cuts will have to be far deeper than any party wants to admit to, AND the proposed tax cuts for the affluent and business, is that its us lot who will have to foot the bill.

Can I see the unions calling for a "Day of Action" Greek style? Yes!

You'd be a great laugh at a Dinner Party - the guests would have all commited suicide by dessert!

nembot

wymondham wrote: »

You'd be a great laugh at a Dinner Party - the guests would have all commited suicide by dessert!

Be that as it may, doesn't mean it won't or can't happen... even in this day and age.

The only sense in which the enconomy looks better, is in articles from those wishing not to not to tell the masses how bad things really are.

Spartacus_Mills

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

No, a nightmare. Forget party politics and look at the economics. The IMF, OECD and various nobel-laureate economists have warned against what Osborne wants to do. No other solvent government is planning to do it. Tax cuts for the uber-rich, tax cuts for the banks AND pay cuts/mass redundancies for the public sector and the unions getting upset isn't exactly a shocking prediction is it?

And remember that the economy tanking, cash being spent on tax cuts and no tax rise on business all mean more tax raised on everyone else. The Greeks are rioting because they don't see why ordinary people should foot the bill for a mess caused by the bankers. The Icelandics did the same. People here are already very unhappy with bankers getting big payouts whilst its tight for the rest of us. And thats with a UK economy growing faster than the Eurozone and lower unemployment than the Eurozone.

What happens when the economy goes into reverse, people see the people they blame for the mess getting rich and them having to suffer? We've been here before in the early 80s remember - the last time we saw big tax cuts for the rich and big cuts for the rest.

This is very party political though. There are plenty of economists who agree with the Tory plans as well. Although between the Two Parties we are simply talking about less than 1 per cent in government spending. £704Bn versus £698Bn. It is meaningless in those terms. A rounding error.

We cannot keep printing and spending, the logic of that is we end up where Zimbabwe was a couple of years ago with hyper inflation. I do not think that will happen here but inflation is already becoming a problem.

Whoever gets in will enact many of the things you are talking about. Cuts are coming whoever wins, pay freezes and cuts are coming whoever wins.

I do not think comparisons to the Eurozone are worthwhile given it contains plenty of basket cases. Our economy should be compared to France and Germany.

THe three parties are not being straight with us although only the Lib Dems have come up with concrete plans to cut the deficit.

abaxas

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

The IMF, OECD and various nobel-laureate economists have warned against what Osborne wants to do

So the non wealth creators and people who got it horribly wrong before have warned about something they didnt even see coming.



In internet speak.... LOL

chucky

Kohoutek wrote: »

As is usually the case I suspect the rioters are the noisy minority, probably not representative of the sentiment of the Greek people.

have to agree with you here 100%

it's just like this forum where the many of the contributors are the noisy minority not representative of the sentiment or situation in this country.

nollag2006

PhylPho

This thread is so far off-track that some correction is overdue:

(1) Er, in case no-one actually noticed, it's the May Day weekend. Traditional time for upstanding anarchists everywhere to throw fire bombs at anyone, anywhere.

Their conduct had nowt to do with Greece's situation, especially seeing as how many of the "rioters" weren't Greek but raving loonies who took advantage of the EU's "open borders" right to drop by for some sunshine.

(2) As the famous historian John Travolta pointed out, Greece is a word. Not an example.

(3) The Greeks are not like us. They're used to living amidst conditions the British would've rebelled against long since. This is obvious from every TV news broadcast ever screened, where the reporter is back-dropped by some kind of derelict building on a hill that would here have been re-developed into a Tesco decades ago. The Italians are the same. The number of ruins in the middle of Rome is quite appalling.

(4) Re (1) Rioters enjoy sunshine because it means water cannon have a cooling effect. Rioters do not like rioting when it's raining. The political climate in the UK is significantly conditioned by the natural climate. This fact may well be emphasised next Friday when Lord Dome announces that Labour failed to stay in office because Labour supporters didn't turn out because of the weather.

(5) re (4) In re-grouping after its monumental General Election failure, Labour will revise its manifesto commitment. The promise to supply every benefits-enhanced chav with high-speed broadband will be replaced with a commitment to provide high-speed opening-and-closing umbrellas.

(6) Mrs Duffy, unexpected winner of the Britain's Got Bigots reality TV show, has accomplished a unique feat in putting Rochdale on the map. Hitherto, no-one was entirely certain where this Promised Land was located, and a group of settlers has been on a long and heroic odyssey to find it.

(7) re (6) The Rochdale Pioneers, as they call themselves, are now to disband because there's no more pioneering to be undertaken. This will have regrettable consequences for user names on a forum run by Money Saving Expert dot com.

Right. That's cleared all that up, then.