****Thrilling Thursday Daily Chat****

ZTD

Ames wrote: »

wow, go Janet street Porter!

z, it'd be fine, except their 'everyone middle class' seems to be 'everyone with a degree which is worthless working in mcjobs paying lots of tax so they can claim back credits and create jobs for middlemen riding the merry go round'

It is possible to be middle class, provided the definition is a proper one.

However you can't *make* everyone middle class - you can only give the opportunity. Someone who would is forced to choose between soap and beer - and choses beer - is underclass no matter how much money they have.

But currently, the opportunities are so removed from ordinary people, as to basically be a trial by fire. It's why the middle-class is shrinking.

Ames

aw that's so cute snaggles!

z, that's the problem I have with the Labour plans - they're not helping everyone to be middle class (whatever that is), because things like education and health is so unequal, and they're just throwing money at money and leaving the poor to sink deeper. Brown's attitude to 'career benefit claimants' (I'm assuming he's not applying it to genuinely disabled, for the sake of simplicity), where they have to be forced to work, is a case in point - there's no point applying sanctions for not being in work, when the jobs aren't there to start with! although to be fair, that's a problem for all of them. and then there's education - still banging on about everyone going to uni, when anyone with half a brain can see how that's caused more problems than it's cured.

aaaand breathe...

ZTD

Snaggles wrote: »

So as I will be on SVR from August, that is when the base rate will inevitably start to rise - you have been warned, people! :rotfl:

Why do you think that?

Snaggles

ZTD wrote: »

Why do you think that?

The law of sod.

ZTD

Ames wrote: »

aw that's so cute snaggles!

z, that's the problem I have with the Labour plans - they're not helping everyone to be middle class (whatever that is),

Middle class is: Aspirations to be better and sacrifice and hard work put in to make it so. That's all - that simple really.

Ames wrote: »

because things like education and health is so unequal, and they're just throwing money at money and leaving the poor to sink deeper.

It's not really the money - it's the marginal rates of "taxation" (in quotes because although it's money taken off, it's not claimed as tax).

Ames wrote: »

Brown's attitude to 'career benefit claimants' (I'm assuming he's not applying it to genuinely disabled, for the sake of simplicity), where they have to be forced to work, is a case in point - there's no point applying sanctions for not being in work, when the jobs aren't there to start with!

There are penalties for doing more than so much voluntary work whilst on the dole - are those going to remain? The Gov needs to get its head around whether working is a good thing or a bad thing.

Ames wrote: »

although to be fair, that's a problem for all of them. and then there's education - still banging on about everyone going to uni, when anyone with half a brain can see how that's caused more problems than it's cured.

Going to uni was always just about a cheap way of getting people off the dole numbers. Instead of paying out, the Government just lends the money, but they don't count as unemployed, and the Government gets to claim it all back later! It's all good until it isn't - then the bleating starts.

Ames wrote: »

aaaand breathe...

And why not...

ZTD

Snaggles wrote: »

The law of sod.

You have more reasons than that...

judi24

Snags so glad she is enjoying it! My DS was out in garden the other day and had a meltdown cos he suddenly noticed the lack of house! I said 'you haven't been in it for years' he said 'yes but it was good to sit on!!!' It is better being used by your little one! as for the mortgage rates - I agree - the
rate will rise in August - as my tracker ends in December and I have no doubt that the rates will rise before I get a chance to secure another reasonable rate - I am currently on 0.49% above BOE base rate tracker - so my current rate is less than 1% - I will never get any where near that again!!!!!

judi24

Right - bed time! Night folkes

Ames

Oh don't get me started on the voluntary work thing! although you can do as many hours as you want as long as it's with a registered charity. But you're right, it's ridiculous that people out of work can only do up to 15 hours voluntary work, when that's more likely to help them into work than most of the 'training' offered.

But there's also the flip side - that voluntary work isn't valued. For the last few years I've been doing voluntary work, and thanks to that I'm at a point where I'm close to being able to think about paid work - something I never thought I'd be able to do. but all the emphasis is on paid work - you're only 'contributing' to society if you're paid for it, even though the voluntary work I've done has had a real, tangible effect on my community.

I like your definition of middle class, the government definition seems to be based on how many boxes you tick on a scoresheet - like level of education, owning your own home, etc.

Butti

scaredy_cat wrote: »

and gettign about £160 for the day.

Yes and can go to prison for 6 months if they !!!! up