An employment law question, please help if you can .

MissPoppins_2

Dear everyone.

I am wondering if you can help me.

If your employer or manager makes you do something that is illegal ( not criminal) at work. They make this act "routine" so that it is a normal part of your daily job. When you ask about it, and say you don't think its legal etc and you don't feel comfortable doing it and the response is no, you are wrong just get on with it to try and bluff you into not being sure about what you are doing .

Example ?:: say your manager told you you needed to tip waste decorators paint and turps into a stream. You know this is an offence under the Environmental Protection Act, so you refuse to do it, until the pressure mounts that you "are not doing your job" so then,you the employee do it.

Who holds the responsibility in this case ( in legal, not moral terms) ? Could the employee for example get arrested or detained by officers due to their actions?

Any help would be very gratefully received.

MissPoppins.

ankspon

It would help if we knew the circumstances but if you genuinely know it is illegal refuse to do it,if you refuse you cannot be held responsible for any recriminations

Mr_Falling_Star

I think the correct procedure is to carry out the instruction but then to raise a grievance or complaint to a senior manager.

That way you can't be done for insubordiantion or breaking the law

ceridwen

Good for you for trying to deal with this situation - rather than just putting up with it:T

I'm wondering if you would have protection under that recent Whistleblowers Act? (not sure of this is the correct name for that law). There definitely has been a law brought into force recently to protect employees who whistleblow against a firm that is breaking the law - I'll rack my brain to see if I can think of the exact name of it.

Also - I'm wondering whether you could report your employer anonymously to the Health and Safety Executive and ask them to investigate.

Other possible avenues? - maybe your local friendly newspaper reporter?

I wish you good luck with this:A

ceridwen

Mr_Falling_Star wrote: »

I think the correct procedure is to carry out the instruction but then to raise a grievance or complaint to a senior manager.

That way you can't be done for insubordiantion or breaking the law

One other thought on that - I wonder if an employee could resign and claim "Constructive Dismissal" for this if need be - though hopefully you wont come anywhere near to that being necessary.

If there is an immediate danger of being forced to go against your conscience/the law then maybe you could go off on sick leave whilst you investigate your options?

ceridwen

Just found the following useful links:

http://www.pcaw.co.uk/

http://www.cfoi.org.uk/whistle.html

The other possibility is coming in from a different direction and contacting Friends of the Earth or some such environmental protection group and asking what advice they have for dealing with this sort of situation.

I really sympathise with you on this one and simply wouldnt do such things as pouring pollutants into streams - whatever my employer said. I couldnt live with my conscience - AND I would fear getting in trouble with the law personally.

Still thinking......the local Water Authority would probably take a dim view of polluting that stream as well. I've heard of Water Authorities prosecuting firms that do that sort of thing before now.

Mr_Falling_Star

ceridwen wrote: »

One other thought on that - I wonder if an employee could resign and claim "Constructive Dismissal" for this if need be - though hopefully you wont come anywhere near to that being necessary.

If there is an immediate danger of being forced to go against your conscience/the law then maybe you could go off on sick leave whilst you investigate your options?

I guess it's possible to claim constructive dismissal but I would have thought that if it's a serious company with a serious HR dept obce somebody senior gets to hear about it then that should be the end of the matter.

MissPoppins_2

Hi again everyone

thanks for your thoughts.

The pouring waste into a stream is a hypothetical, but its just to show the "level of law" im talking about, employer isnt trying to make employee rape/murder. ( yet!) not pollute in this way.

Mr Falling star- no its a small company and law breaking exercises are encouraged/demanded by the managing director. There is no HR department.

ceridwen

I thought Miss Poppins might be "on her own" on this one within the context of the firm concerned.

One point I would make here - be very careful about trusting any of the other employees of the firm. I expect you've already decided not to mention it (or mention it any further as the case may be) to other employees of the firm. It would probably be the wisest course of action not to discuss this with fellow employees - particularly in the current economic climate (ie where there are colleagues who would "sell their granny" if it helped their own career prospects).

Just take quiet/effective action to deal with this firm - without telling anyone in the firm.

Mr_Falling_Star

MissPoppins wrote: »

Hi again everyone

thanks for your thoughts.

The pouring waste into a stream is a hypothetical, but its just to show the "level of law" im talking about, employer isnt trying to make employee rape/murder. ( yet!) not pollute in this way.

Mr Falling star- no its a small company and law breaking exercises are encouraged/demanded by the managing director. There is no HR department.

Then that is a problem, you could make a phone call to the relevant authorities or crimestoppers. Keep a diary of what is going on and try to keep your behind covered. Good luck

Mr_Falling_Star

ceridwen wrote: »

I thought Miss Poppins might be "on her own" on this one within the context of the firm concerned.

One point I would make here - be very careful about trusting any of the other employees of the firm. I expect you've already decided not to mention it (or mention it any further as the case may be) to other employees of the firm. It would probably be the wisest course of action not to discuss this with fellow employees - particularly in the current economic climate (ie where there are colleagues who would "sell their granny" if it helped their own career prospects).

Just take quiet/effective action to deal with this firm - without telling anyone in the firm.

Excellent point :T