How is robbing the wealth of others to pay for lower paid people 'fair'?

kennyboy66_2

StevieJ wrote: »

But part of the reason the marginal tax rate is high is to pay the wages in the new doctors contracts, mmmm a bit of a ( what did Churchill call it ?) ah yes a conundrum wrapped in an enigma

To motivate the rich you have to pay them more.
To motivate the poor you have to pay them less.

Its the Tory way.

Snooze

LydiaJ wrote: »

Firstly, if you are only talking about unskilled people, then say so. "All public sector workers" and "All unskilled public sector workers" are nowhere near being the same category.

Secondly, unless you want to live in a country where patients are treated in filthy hospitals and children are educated in filthy schools, then the people who clean the toilets and empty the bins are providing an important service, doing a job that almost nobody could enjoy, for a wage that many people wouldn't get out of bed for. I am grateful to them. Why do they inspire such animosity in you?

Don't be so ridiculous :rolleyes:. What is wrong with all you lefties? Can't you think outside the box or is it just that you're all stupid? Obviously they would need to be cleaned to a certain standard and if they are not then they keep doing them until they are done right. Their choice - clean them properly and receive your JSA and have your tax paid, or don't clean and get neither. With regards the bins, there is no middle ground - they are either emptied or they aren't so your "what about if they don't do them right" argument is void.

I don't understand why all this is so difficult for your all to comprehend. Or is it just that you are all perfectly happy having 40-60% of your incomes going straight into the pocket of the Stella/Kyle brigade? If not then !!!!!! whining and accept that something drastic needs to be done. :rolleyes:

Cleaver

Snooze wrote: »

Don't be so ridiculous :rolleyes:. What is wrong with all you lefties?

I love this site. If you're someone who doesn't want to buy a house because you think they're expensive, then you're labelled a 'stupid bear', if you think house prices will rise you get called a 'debt junkie', and now Lydia has suggested that people who clean toilets should be admired for doing it and she gets called a 'lefty' and told to 'shut the f*ck up'. Brilliant.

Snooze wrote: »

I don't understand why all this is so difficult for your all to comprehend. Or is it just that you are all perfectly happy having 40-60% of your incomes going straight into the pocket of the Stella/Kyle brigade? If not then !!!!!! whining and accept that something drastic needs to be done. :rolleyes:

40% - 60% of your income doesn't go to the Stella / Kyle brigade though, does it? I'm not sure what percentage of my overall income I pay in tax, but it's probably around 25%. Of this, maybe 10% (a complete guess) goes to benefit payments. Of that 10% I would imagine 5% goes to people that genuinely need it. I can't be bothered to do the maths, but a small fraction of my income goes to the Stella / Kyle brigade.

The benefits system in this country is nuts and needs sorting out. But don't exagerate the situation.

ninky_2

nickmason wrote: »

This is absolute and utter tosh. There is a huge statistical correlation between hard work and wealth. Enormous. Vast. Which to be fair is me just playing with statistics -as you are. But your prosleytising "as science" is a bit hypocritical.

sorry but there isn't. if you would like to find me the statistics you believe counter my argument i'd be happy to look at them.

working 'enough' is probably necessary for the majority. however the main things that effect your wealth are....

inheritance.
family connections.
whether or not you have kids.
reasonable health (to a certain extent).
wealth of spouse if you marry.

criminal or corrupt activities can also make you very wealthy.

which is why someone like me with a first class degree and a fairly high level job often finds myself in charge of school leavers with more wealth than myself.

a single mum holding down a couple of jobs works very hard but is also highly unlikely to be wealthy.

there are plenty of 'professionals' who don't work that hard but are very wealthy.

Rick62

Cleaver wrote: »

40% - 60% of your income doesn't go to the Stella / Kyle brigade though, does it? I'm not sure what percentage of my overall income I pay in tax, but it's probably around 25%. Of this, maybe 10% (a complete guess) goes to benefit payments. Of that 10% I would imagine 5% goes to people that genuinely need it. I can't be bothered to do the maths, but a small fraction of my income goes to the Stella / Kyle brigade.

The benefits system in this country is nuts and needs sorting out. But don't exagerate the situation.

I'm pretty sure that social benefits are now greater than income taxes & NI. So, all the tax you pay, typically about a third your income, going to support economically inactive citizens. Is that 'fair'?

Cleaver

Rick62 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that social benefits are now greater than income taxes & NI.

I seem to remember reading that income tax receipts are about £150 billion, so I would imagine so, yes.

Rick62 wrote: »

So, all the tax you pay, typically about a third your income, going to support economically inactive citizens. Is that 'fair'?

This is flawed logic though. My tax goes towards a number of things: health, defence, education, infrastructure etc. etc. All of it doesn't go to social security, although I understand the point you're making - if you added up everyone's income tax it wouldn't be able to pay the social security bill. But as government spending is about £700 billion and income tax receipts is only about £150 billion our income taxes don't really cover that much.

Don't get me wrong, social security payments need to be slashed. But to say that 'all my taxes go to chavs' isn't correct, is it? It's split up and used to pay for lots of things.

vaporate

Snooze wrote: »

Don't be so ridiculous :rolleyes:. What is wrong with all you lefties? Can't you think outside the box or is it just that you're all stupid? Obviously they would need to be cleaned to a certain standard and if they are not then they keep doing them until they are done right. Their choice - clean them properly and receive your JSA and have your tax paid, or don't clean and get neither. With regards the bins, there is no middle ground - they are either emptied or they aren't so your "what about if they don't do them right" argument is void.

I don't understand why all this is so difficult for your all to comprehend. Or is it just that you are all perfectly happy having 40-60% of your incomes going straight into the pocket of the Stella/Kyle brigade? If not then !!!!!! whining and accept that something drastic needs to be done. :rolleyes:

I hope you are not stating that ppl on JSA should go out and do degrading cleaning work...

Snooze

vaporate wrote: »

I hope you are not stating that ppl on JSA should go out and do degrading cleaning work...

I am. Absolutely. Not bothered what sort of work it is but they need to do some public service work in return for their hand-outs and having their stamp paid. Can't see why anyone who pays taxes would have a problem with this.

StevieJ

Pete111 wrote: »

Interesting.

But did you know that 85.8% of statistical data is made up on the spot?



Actually Ninky I half believe you. Did you know for example, that these days there are literally thousands of able bodied people doing s*d all all day and making a tidy sum out of it.

Their laziness is certainly paying off....cheers for pointing that out!

I have to say rather you than me, nice DM headline though

chris_m

vaporate wrote: »

I hope you are not stating that ppl on JSA should go out and do degrading cleaning work...

Why should it be considered "degrading"?
Surely asking people not in gainful employment to perform a necessary function in return for money to help them live is not unreasonable?