Bank haven't provided signed CCA

Kimbohuddy

Apologies for starting a new thread for this, I know there are threads out there discussing it but they seem to be from quite a few years ago.

I have a credit card and personal loan debt with HBoS. I sent letters back in February asking for copies of the signed CCA etc so I could go down the route of 12 bus days then 30 etc and it would be unenforceable. I used all the template letters from this website.

I got a signed copy for the loan within a week and got a letter acknowledging my request about the credit card agreement it had a cca in it but it wasnt signed by me. I then sent the 30 days letter as i've yet to see a signed agreement for this debt.

Today i recieved a letter from them stating:

According to our records we supplied copies of the agreement in place at the time the account was opened and the one currently inplace. by providing you with these copies, we satisfied our obligation under section 78. i have enclosed another set of these documnets with this letter.

At the moment we are unalb eot provide a copy of the signed application form. However can confirm our procedure has always been to obtain our customer's signature to an agreement containing the prescribed terms before entering into a credit card agreement. As such, we are confident that the agreement remains enforceable.

The regulation defines what is required of a 'copy'. Whilst regulation 3 provides 'every copy' of an executed agreement...shall be a true copy' . Regulation 3(2) (b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, singautre or signature date.

However, even if an agreement is unenforceable, the contract still has legal effect an is not void, the lender is merely prevented from seeking an enforcement order from teh court. It has always been our process to ensure that an agreement complying with the CCA requirements would have been signed by the customer before setting up a credit card accoun. should this matter procede to court we will adduce evidence to confirm this.

I hope this clarifies our position.


so here I am... this is my response and still no proof that i ever signed this credit agreement. I dont mind if i dont get back the payments i've made I just don't acknowlege this debt.
what do I do? can they still make me pay even though they haven't any proof of my signature on this CCA?? I cancelled the standing payment i have to them after sending the letter, now i'm worried it'll cause all manner of problems.

your advice/guidance or if you have had a letter similar, what did u do?

thanks.

Kimberly

BLT_2

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

Apologies for starting a new thread for this, I know there are threads out there discussing it but they seem to be from quite a few years ago.

I have a credit card and personal loan debt with HBoS. I sent letters back in February asking for copies of the signed CCA etc so I could go down the route of 12 bus days then 30 etc and it would be unenforceable. I used all the template letters from this website.

I got a signed copy for the loan within a week and got a letter acknowledging my request about the credit card agreement it had a cca in it but it wasnt signed by me. I then sent the 30 days letter as i've yet to see a signed agreement for this debt.

Today i recieved a letter from them stating:

According to our records we supplied copies of the agreement in place at the time the account was opened and the one currently inplace. by providing you with these copies, we satisfied our obligation under section 78. i have enclosed another set of these documnets with this letter.

At the moment we are unalb eot provide a copy of the signed application form. However can confirm our procedure has always been to obtain our customer's signature to an agreement containing the prescribed terms before entering into a credit card agreement. As such, we are confident that the agreement remains enforceable.

The regulation defines what is required of a 'copy'. Whilst regulation 3 provides 'every copy' of an executed agreement...shall be a true copy' . Regulation 3(2) (b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, singautre or signature date.

However, even if an agreement is unenforceable, the contract still has legal effect an is not void, the lender is merely prevented from seeking an enforcement order from teh court. It has always been our process to ensure that an agreement complying with the CCA requirements would have been signed by the customer before setting up a credit card accoun. should this matter procede to court we will adduce evidence to confirm this.

I hope this clarifies our position.


so here I am... this is my response and still no proof that i ever signed this credit agreement. I dont mind if i dont get back the payments i've made I just don't acknowlege this debt.
what do I do? can they still make me pay even though they haven't any proof of my signature on this CCA?? I cancelled the standing payment i have to them after sending the letter, now i'm worried it'll cause all manner of problems.

your advice/guidance or if you have had a letter similar, what did u do?

thanks.

Kimberly

Slightly confused here, at the beginning of the post you state you have a credit card and loan with HBoS, you write off asking for copies of your agreements. You have been paying credit card monthly payments and then state that you don't acknowledge the debt.

If you don't acknowledge the debt then why have you been making payments. Alternatively is this another attempt to avoid paying back any of the companies money you have used purely on a technicality.

Locke

Post it up in here.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2305463

Kimbohuddy

I have been making payments so that I don't affect my credit rating.

The original request for copies was after my seperation with my ex, I had no copies of these agreements and debts against my name. I needed these in order to ensure that I was paying for something i should be paying for.

However after not receiving a copy for the credit card I was advised by a friend it was unenforceable. I then went through the process of sending the template letters and am now in this position.

The loan CCA was issued after a request on the phone I got nothing from credit card company after request on the phone and it was about 2 months later i send the first letter with £1 postal order.

never-in-doubt

BLT wrote: »

Alternatively is this another attempt to avoid paying back any of the companies money you have used purely on a technicality.

You've been here what 11 days and already think you're top dog do you? Having spent some time reading your posts, without going through and ripping each one to shreds - you're seriously not that clued up are you?

Instead of being a smart arsey, consider walking on by when you see a post that beats your mental capacities, otherwise you'd not get people like me come along and correct you!

There is NO legal loophole (please provide statistical proof of this claim?) - what makes you say that and what makes you think you have a right to say that? unenforceability is A RIGHT - not a loophole, a bloody right that stands up in court and wins in court! A loophole, to clarify, is when you trip on your own [STRIKE]!!!!!![/STRIKE] dribble and try and claim from the council because it so happens the kerb was 2mm bigger than it should have been

The irony is above!

never-in-doubt

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

I have been making payments so that I don't affect my credit rating.

The original request for copies was after my seperation with my ex, I had no copies of these agreements and debts against my name. I needed these in order to ensure that I was paying for something i should be paying for.

However after not receiving a copy for the credit card I was advised by a friend it was unenforceable. I then went through the process of sending the template letters and am now in this position.

The loan CCA was issued after a request on the phone I got nothing from credit card company after request on the phone and it was about 2 months later i send the first letter with £1 postal order.

Hiya

can you confirm you have received a CCA for the loan and the CC? You are aware you'll get a default if you take this route? i.e. no credit for 6 years?

Please confirm some more details and i'll sort it for you

Kimbohuddy

NID,

* I split with my ex and requested over the telephone in December copies of all CCA for loan/cc.
* copy of signed CCA for loan (£21k) was with me within a week, got nothing for credit card (£3k). it was after about a month of waiting a friend pointed me to this website.
* I continued to make payments (with help from my parents - i'm not sure how much detail i need to go in to about my personal/financial circumstances - i've seen some posts that give statements of account etc?)
* I used the template for the CCA request and sent off my £1 postal order, from memory as letter not saved on this computer it was middle feb.
* I got from the bank a copy of a CCA with no signatures and a letter acknowledging that they couldnt provide that at this time, just before the 12 days into march
* I sent the follow up letter after 12+30 days had passed week past Friday and the letter I transcribed above is the one I've recieved today.

I understand that I will recieve defaults against my CC account. maybe you can confirm for me that this won't impact the loan - I have continued making payments to this and did not send any further follow up letters after recieving the CCA. I have a case in place to arrange through a 3rd party debt managment agency payments to this.

I could have included the credit card in the above however after reading the threads it seemed unenforceability fit better with the credit card, not sure if this was the right thing to do?

However my main query is that I have still to see a signed copy of my CCA for this credit card, should I cease payments and send the next template letter? The letter from them today kind of threw me!

never-in-doubt

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

* I split with my ex and requested over the telephone in December copies of all CCA for loan/cc.

Everything has to be done in writing, no more silly phone calls ok? Agreed...? lol

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

* copy of signed CCA for loan (£21k) was with me within a week,

Is this signed by you and the lender? is it definitely enforceable, can I take a look at it? PM me for my email addy, it'd be good to let me check it cos it may be unenforceable in which case you do not have to repay it.

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

got nothing for credit card (£3k). it was after about a month of waiting a friend pointed me to this website.

Yes, as point 1 above - you need to do these things in writing, nobody uses the phone nowadays lol.....

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

* I continued to make payments (with help from my parents - i'm not sure how much detail i need to go in to about my personal/financial circumstances - i've seen some posts that give statements of account etc?)

I don't need a SOA - I deal with not repaying anything back, i'm not into negotiating payments lol.... kinda like putting a vampire out to sunbathe :rotfl:

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

* I used the template for the CCA request and sent off my £1 postal order, from memory as letter not saved on this computer it was middle feb.

For the credit card? If so, and considering their earlier letter, respond with this: CCA Query - Copy Document Supplied

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

* I got from the bank a copy of a CCA with no signatures and a letter acknowledging that they couldnt provide that at this time, just before the 12 days into march

For the loan or credit card?

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

* I sent the follow up letter after 12+30 days had passed week past Friday and the letter I transcribed above is the one I've recieved today.

Again, the credit card, I presume?

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

I understand that I will recieve defaults against my CC account. maybe you can confirm for me that this won't impact the loan - I have continued making payments to this and did not send any further follow up letters after recieving the CCA. I have a case in place to arrange through a 3rd party debt managment agency payments to this.

If you get a default you will struggle to get ANY additional credit for 6 years til the default drops off.... however assuming you had to pay back the loan and CC it'd take this long anyway! You will get defaulted on both the loan and CC if they are both unenforceable and you decide to take that option? You need to let me see the credit agreement for the loan and whatever they sent you today, regards the credit card...

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

I could have included the credit card in the above however after reading the threads it seemed unenforceability fit better with the credit card, not sure if this was the right thing to do?

Makes no sense? lol - eeek, what do you mean? I thought you were speaking about the CC above? Help!

Kimbohuddy wrote: »

However my main query is that I have still to see a signed copy of my CCA for this credit card, should I cease payments and send the next template letter? The letter from them today kind of threw me!

Send this template for the CC only: CCA Query - Copy Document Supplied

regards to the letter they sent you, its mostly bollix so don't be worrying about it - nothing they can do, trust me

Kimbohuddy

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Everything has to be done in writing, no more silly phone calls ok? Agreed...? lol

totally - I did the phonecall bit before I'd heard about this process.

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Is this signed by you and the lender? is it definitely enforceable, can I take a look at it? PM me for my email addy, it'd be good to let me check it cos it may be unenforceable in which case you do not have to repay it.

I've just pulled out the paperwork they sent back, it was 2 loans totalling the amount previously quoted however only one of them has my signature along with the bank officials signature - the other one doesn't!! Not sure if that makes i unenforeable I can scan these and send them to you.

never-in-doubt wrote: »

For the loan or credit card?
Again, the credit card, I presume?

for the credit card

never-in-doubt wrote: »

If you get a default you will struggle to get ANY additional credit for 6 years til the default drops off.... however assuming you had to pay back the loan and CC it'd take this long anyway! You will get defaulted on both the loan and CC if they are both unenforceable and you decide to take that option? You need to let me see the credit agreement for the loan and whatever they sent you today, regards the credit card...

Thanks, I can scan and send the letter I got today along with the CCA that doesn't have any signatures for the Credit Card. I'll also include the two CCA's for the loans one of which has all signatures and the other doesn't have the bank officials signatures.

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Makes no sense? lol - eeek, what do you mean? I thought you were speaking about the CC above? Help!

I meant include the credit card in my negotiations to reduce payments through DMA.

Thanks again.

never-in-doubt

Hiya

No negotiating right now ok? Try and scan and email the paperwork you have before going any further!

Can you also clarify, you used to have one loan then took another and they merged these into one larger loan? OR was it a case of two loans and still 2 loans? Please be specific about this.....

ive PM'd you my email address, use your username here in subject line so I know it is you ok?

Kimbohuddy

Thanks.

I'm gonna scan now and will email them to you!

Sorry, It was two loans, always was two loans. I referred to the total amount as I assumed the loans were enforecable.