'Is 'chivalry' a danger to security?' blog discussion

dytham

I worked as a contractor on a site where they put out security bulletins that we should challenge anyone not wearing a pass:

BUT - I was not employed as a security guard, nor trained as one.

It would be all very well asking someone I recognised where their pass was - all I would get would be resentment and a reputation for pedantry. IF the person without a pass was a genuine threat to security, say a suicide bomber, looking around the building to try and find the most senior people to blow up, should I just let them go on their way to find said people, or panic them with a challenge into blowing ME up ?

easy

So, If I walk up to a door, carrying my briefcase in one hand, laptop bag over my shoulder, three lever-arch files in my other arm and a coffee, should you allow the door to slam in my face?

spikeydudeuk

If you know or recognise the person, then by all means let them in. It's common sense.

If building management really thought it was a problem, they'd have installed turnstiles or high-security 'pods' that make sure only one person goes through with each pass. By just having doors, they've already traded a chunk of security for user-friendliness. And as someone said above, if they're worth their salt, they'll understand this.

I used to live in a block of flats that had 2 consecutive doors at the entrance to discourage tail-gating. I came in at around midnight, and noticed that 2 guys who I didn't recognise and who looked fairly dodgy had appeared and were following me towards the door, maybe 10 metres back. If I'd opened the door as normal, they'd have been able to catch it just before it closed, and get in. I opened it a tiny bit, slipped in, and closed it behind me. They started banging on the door and shouting. I shrugged and carried on. At the end of the day, you don't want someone in your block who doesn't live there. I've also firmly told people who didn't look dodgy that I wouldn't let them in, and they'd need to buzz up to the person they were visiting. Some people have been fine about it; others have seemed to think I was taking things too seriously. I've never had too much trouble, though.

But then I'm pretty anonymous-looking. Martin - you're close to a celebrity, and you need to keep your brand up! For people who haven't thought the issues through, it could look pretty rude to shut a door delibarately rather than hold it open for the person behind you. And explaining why you're doing it to each person behind you would get tedious after a while! So maybe if you're a public figure, it's best to hold the door and take the credit

jennilb

I used to manage sheltered housing blocks for a housing association and this was a real issue. Elderly residents, their visitors and carers would let people in who arrived just after them. There were incidents of theft of small items from communal areas and of people trying to 'charm' their way into individual flats once they were in the block. However, it is very hard (especially if you're 80 and have early signs of dementia) to change the habit of a lifetime and stop holding doors open for people. I think its a good idea to learn that earlier.

not_loaded

easy wrote: »

So, If I walk up to a door, carrying my briefcase in one hand, laptop bag over my shoulder, three lever-arch files in my other arm and a coffee, should you allow the door to slam in my face?

Yup. You should be prepared to swipe in like everyone else.

DarkConvict

I used to live in a block of flats that had 2 consecutive doors at the entrance to discourage tail-gating. I came in at around midnight, and noticed that 2 guys who I didn't recognise and who looked fairly dodgy had appeared and were following me towards the door, maybe 10 metres back. If I'd opened the door as normal, they'd have been able to catch it just before it closed, and get in. I opened it a tiny bit, slipped in, and closed it behind me. They started banging on the door and shouting. I shrugged and carried on. At the end of the day, you don't want someone in your block who doesn't live there. I've also firmly told people who didn't look dodgy that I wouldn't let them in, and they'd need to buzz up to the person they were visiting. Some people have been fine about it; others have seemed to think I was taking things too seriously. I've never had too much trouble, though.

That sounds worrying to have people like that about.

johnmc

[quote=easy]So, If I walk up to a door, carrying my briefcase in one hand, laptop bag over my shoulder, three lever-arch files in my other arm and a coffee, should you allow the door to slam in my face?[/quote]
If you did this in my building I would send you on a manual handling course.

I then took my hand and placed it on the reader (as if I had a card in there).

I've previously done contracts to test security and this is one of the techniques I use.

"I'm sorry, you'll need to swipe your card". And I stand there until they do. The odd one will complain, the majority just wait until I forget mine.:D

savingholmes

unless you know them - yes you are endangering security. It is called tail gating when others pass thro on your card and is strongly discouraged by building security. Even if they have a card it could have been disabled - they may have left or been sacked So yeah holding doors for people you don't directly work with is a significant security risk!

antonia1

Don't let the one in a million security risk stop you being kind! As you say all the offices have their own security so you're not really endangering any confidentiality.

You have to weigh up the risk on a case-by-case basis. How likely is it that someone is trying to blow up your building, and are you prepared to take that risk?

Personally, I would let people into the building, but if someone wanted access to the individual offices I'd let them in and if I didn't recognise them I'd ask if they needed help to find the person they are looking for.

Its no wonder that the sense of community is disappearing if you assume that everyone you meet is likely to be trying to do harm.

oystercatcher

I used to work in a maternity unit and it was a continual source of annoyance that the visitors would just hold the doors open and let a whole stream of people in. Yes, most of the visitors were just New Grannies desperate to see their first grandchild etc etc but we regularly have women who are the subjects of domestic violence and babies who are subject to child protection orders. So their visitors need to be carefully monitored.....never mind the visitor with a large baby sized holdall who could help themselves to an unattended baby while the mum has just nipped to the loo !! It's happened in the past and I'm sure will happen again.......