Help, Advice Needed RE Overpayment

deviousdame

spud30 wrote:

I'm not sure they would be able to take you to court, as they have no signed credit agreement/loan agreement to produce to prove the debt.

In another life, I used to take people to court, and I had to provide the relevant documents to the court for each person.

I could , of course, be very wrong

they have copies of the payslips which they attached with the letter, would they be sufficient in court?

deviousdame

we have found a couple of emails regarding my wifes enquiry into her payslips, they are fairly breif though but do indicate that my wife DID question the amount paid at the time, which in my mind gives us further support as to why we should pay this back...

what do you think?

Thanks for looking,
Damian

Bossyboots

spud30 wrote:

I'm not sure they would be able to take you to court, as they have no signed credit agreement/loan agreement to produce to prove the debt.

In another life, I used to take people to court, and I had to provide the relevant documents to the court for each person.

I could , of course, be very wrong

That won't be suing for default on an agreement. In this case, they have the payslips and e-mail to show the mistake and that they have made a demand for repayment. It would be for the defendant to admit or deny the claim. As it is clear from this thread the wife knows the money was paid incorrectly she would be commiting perjury by denying the claim so they have her over a barrel. The amount might be in issue so the payslips need to be checked carefully but I would have thought coming to an agreement now over how much is to be paid back and in what instalments is going to save a lot of heartache in the long run.

I cannot see a court agreeing that just because she queried the amounts and was told they were right, that she is absolved of liability. The view could be taken that this proves she knew the amounts were wrong.

deviousdame

Bossyboots wrote:

That won't be suing for default on an agreement. In this case, they have the payslips and e-mail to show the mistake and that they have made a demand for repayment. It would be for the defendant to admit or deny the claim. As it is clear from this thread the wife knows the money was paid incorrectly she would be commiting perjury by denying the claim so they have her over a barrel. The amount might be in issue so the payslips need to be checked carefully but I would have thought coming to an agreement now over how much is to be paid back and in what instalments is going to save a lot of heartache in the long run.

I cannot see a court agreeing that just because she queried the amounts and was told they were right, that she is absolved of liability. The view could be taken that this proves she knew the amounts were wrong.

just to recap, she DID think at the time that they were making a mistake with her wages and thats why she asked them a few times to check it out, thing is as they kept saying that there was no problem so she accepted that and left it as that..

it just feels a little harsh that because they have only NOW realised that somebody did make a mistake that they have asked for it back...

I just assumed that if they have admitted that it was their error then maybe we would be in a position to refuse to repay it...

thought I would just take a few days to get all of your experienced views on here before we decided to contact them...

any other oppinions please ????

Kind Rgds,
Damian

madduck

From memory - not at work just now so can't check - the defence your wife would have to rely on is 'estoppel' (sp?). In effect, she queried that the payment was correct, was assured that it was and then spent the money in good faith.

The agency might come back and claim that the overpayment was a clerical error or miscalculation, that is where your wife would be able to call upon the evidence that she didn't just pocket the cash, she did query that it was correct (on more than one occassion) and it was only after she was that she spent the cash.

Why not respond as such to the agency just now, keep the cash and see where the agency go. Even if they do try to tough things out and reclaim the cash - why pay it back now? Save the interest on the cash until and if you need to.

Can't believe that I'm say this by the way - my day job is in HR and normally I'd be the person chasing the cash!

kwisstan

I had a discussion a few weeks ago about this same subject. My friend is a lawyer for a large chain of garages who constantly over pay their staff (the salesmen tend to leave with little notice). They then ask for the money back, and are usually told "no" by the former employee. They then sue - and win.

I can't remember the exact reasoning, I tried to say "good faith" as a defence and she just said it doesn't work. I can't fathom why it should be the case, but I agree with bossyboots. I would double check all the payslips, work out the tax & NI (if any) and then agree a monthly installment.

kwisstan

found this may be of help?

"If you have left the employment where the overpayment occurred

In this situation, your former employer is unable to make a deduction from your wages. But what if, some months or years later, your former employer, or even a debt collector, contacts you claiming that you owe money that was overpayed in the former employment? Much will depend on what was stated in the employment contract. Some contracts state that, if an employee leaves the employment owing the employer money that could not be recovered from final wages, the amount owed becomes a civil debt. If there is no contractual provision to treat the alleged overpayment as a civil debt, the employer may have considerable difficulty in enforcing payment if you refuse to cooperate. In either situation, you should obtain advice from a solicitor, or the Citizen’s Advice Bureau, or another local organisation providing advice on legal, employment or tax matters. "

http://www.paypershop.com/faq/overpaid.html

llh189

This is very similar to a previous post and I think that same advice applies, whilst your wife was right to query the overpayment, and was wrongly told that the overpayment wasn't an overpayment, now that the mistake has come to light it would be expected that she should repay the money.

The letter the agency sent was very nice and did offer some sort of payment arrangement. If you turn this down / ignore the issue the ex employer would probably seek recovery of money through the small claims court, and I am afraid that the judgement would probably go in the favour of the exemployer.

I was in a simalar situation ( although I know that they had overpaid me ), when I was contacted, I agreed to pay £50 per month, the amount owed was about the same as yours, this was accepted after a while by them and I set up a standing order to pay them. I feel sure that because I had made what was a reasonable offer V's my expenses, they would not have been able to force me to pay quicker via the small claims court.

Make an offer and see what they say, do politely point out that it was their mistake and you did try to put it right on a couple of ocassions, if you are still unsure seek further advice fromn the CAB but I am afraid you do need to repay them - although without any interest.

HTH

Lx

deviousdame

some very interesting posts there, many thanks for all your advice :T

deviousdame

madduck wrote:

Can't believe that I'm say this by the way - my day job is in HR and normally I'd be the person chasing the cash!

:rotfl:

we are going to try and get to the CAB this week to ask them what they think before we respond, just hope they dont send another letter first!

Thanks again for all your help guys and gals :beer: :beer: