Helping the vulnerable or Benefits Britain?

treliac

If everyone wanted to work as much as you do Sue, we'd have a very different country. The rot set in when it became more lucrative for people on low pay to make the conscious decision not to work.

Neither low pay nor 'choosing' not to work are good for us as a society. Will we ever get a govt with the will to address the issue properly?

SingleSue

paybacktime2008 wrote: »

I also have a prediction and you can call me cynical if you like. With the new rules regarding income support coming in (i.e soon it will be when your youngest child hits 7 you can only claim JSA, used to be 16 now 11 I think) there will be a baby boom amongst certain memebers of our society.

Lol, won't be me.....children have not been possible since 2001 (not that I would want anymore anyway :eek:)

treliac

paybacktime2008 wrote: »

I also have a prediction and you can call me cynical if you like. With the new rules regarding income support coming in (i.e soon it will be when your youngest child hits 7 you can only claim JSA, used to be 16 now 11 I think) there will be a baby boom amongst certain memebers of our society.

The logical consequence of this would be for a great many more children to become 'at risk' in our society, thus putting even greater strain on social services and creating even more spiralling costs to services which, again, we shall have to pay heavily for.

PasturesNew

For many people, in many areas, there are no prospects. I've worked hard my entire working life waiting for these prospects.... there weren't any. Companies weren't large enough to have any prospects, companies paid about the same so it was difficult to improve your lot. Also, a lot of small companies go to the wall or disappear for other reasons. When you've spent mind numbing years being laid off and always starting at the bottom again, hearing of these mythical prospects we're all supposed to have, I can see how some would opt for popping out kids. At least that way your time is more your own.

paybacktime2008

treliac wrote: »

The logical consequence of this would be for a great many more children to become 'at risk' in our society, thus putting even greater strain on social services and creating even more spiralling costs to services which, again, we shall have to pay heavily for.

Yep you've got it! Most couples stop having children when they have had enough (if that makes sense) they know that their income etc won't stretch to a 4/5/6 bed house. They can't afford a people carrier etc. However if you are benefits have as many as you like because that brings in more cash. In my line of work I come across it a lot-overcrowded families on benefits, not coping as it is, having another child so they will jump up the housing list. It does make me rather cross.

Quite what stops me selling up and moving into private rented (paid for of course) and spending my days gardening I am still analysing!!

paybacktime2008

PasturesNew wrote: »

For many people, in many areas, there are no prospects. I've worked hard my entire working life waiting for these prospects.... there weren't any. Companies weren't large enough to have any prospects, companies paid about the same so it was difficult to improve your lot. Also, a lot of small companies go to the wall or disappear for other reasons. When you've spent mind numbing years being laid off and always starting at the bottom again, hearing of these mythical prospects we're all supposed to have, I can see how some would opt for popping out kids. At least that way your time is more your own.

I totally agree and it's tragic and wrong

PasturesNew

WTC/CTC etc is all fairly new.... you used to get just Family Allowance (about £10/week I think) and that was your lot. If you worked you earnt more, if you didn't work you didn't have more. Most people would work evening/weekend jobs to fit in with finding people to look after their kids (husband/partners, grandparents, other family, babysitters).

It's nuts now when you see what's thrown at NuLab's perception of "getting kids out of poverty". In many cases they've just created more income for the parents. The parent/s forget that "their bit" of the money is just equivalent to JSA (say £60/week to live on) and rob their kids blind so they can buy Stella and fags. That money was supposed to give the kids a better life/chance.

A crazy system that's turned out to benefit nobody.... except the breweries and designer gear distributors.

paybacktime2008

And when these kids get to working age and do their sums they will probably opt for a life on benefits too.

These generational benefit families are a far far far greater worry to the country than immigration in my view. Yet I've not heard a single party mention anything. Or have I not been listening?

shaven-monkey

Well, why not offer every family a 10k living allowance regardless of circumstances with no extras for more kids, more problems or larger housing requirements?

Something like the green party's "Citizen's Income". but with an arbitrary number plugged into it.

drc

I'm just wondering how long this madness can go on for? Surely with a £170 billion + debt, the welfare state is just completely economically unsustainable apart from all the moral issues of some people choosing to live off other peoples hard work. The welfare bill gets bigger and bigger every year and soon there will be fewer people working than collecting benefits. What happens then?