Any info on Dental Treatment abroad.

Mark2spark

I understand your concerns welshdent and I appreciate your comments.
I'm still looking into it, but it does appear as if the Hungarian quotes are for 'better', or at least more expensive, work, rather than like for like.
A lot of these places in Hungary (like attila the gum's one) have been going for a good few years now, and the horror stories don't appear to be any more than uk ones.

I think the problem is that something uk priced is completely unaffordable, whereas the Hungarian price brings in into the realms of just about stretch that far. So the choice is have or have not.
Or cottage pie for life

welshdent

Just to touch on the idea that UK prices are completely unaffordable I just want to draw attention to how much it costs to provide the implants in the first place. To get a decent level of training in placing them properly it costs a good 30K + to do a reputable course over a period of a year or so. I dont count weekend courses as good training although people do them and then place implants. Personally I wouldnt feel competent. Thats not counting the time given up out of work to attend the courses. I wouldnt be surprised if overall the costs were in the region of 50K . THEN the equipment costs a bomb to buy. Each implant costs a fair penny and the set up to place them surgically ... and over repeated vists costs a lot. In the healing phase of around 3 - 6 months or so you would want a temporary restoration (ideally you dont immediately load them). That temporary has to be made so there is a large lab fee attached to the work. You have to factor in staffing costs. Often the nurse needs extra training also as its not run of the mill dentistry. Beyond that the lab fee for the final restoration is likely to be high as you will be getting a particularly precision item made of often higher end materials. These again cost the dentist ALOT. My best mate did a cheaper course over a week. As a result his initial outlay is lower. However for a single tooth implant and crown he needs to charge 1700 just to cover his costs not accounting for staff. In eastern europe the wages are lower so immediately you have a lower cost to you. We ARE ripped off in the UK no doubt. An Ipad in australia for the top spec 3G is £100 cheaper than the UK and in the US its £150!! But that doesnt mean you are being ripped off for quality dentistry ... if done well .... thats not to say all UK work is great and eastern european work is rubbish I hasten to add. Its just not as simple as saying costs here are too high and unfair.

Mark2spark

Just a quickie update to this.
The price I have from a UK dentist, (an 'estimate' mind ) is £12+k for dentures (10) fixed to 4 implants upper, and a telescopic denture on the lower, I retain my middle 5 front teeth on the lower.

I've just had my first accurate 'quotation' from Hungary, based on no physical in person examination, but from providing a Q & A with a panoramic x-ray, it's for 11 implants, 6 upper, 5 lower, a set of 14 upper teeth ( I assume a bridge? Or 2 bridges?), and a set of 12 lower teeth, with my (real) middle 5 lower teeth crowned.
Both dentists include for root canel treatment as neccessary.

The Hungarian quote is also for £12k. Clearly it's for at least twice as much work though.
There are 3 separate visits to Hungary involved to factor in to that as well.

Mark

Toothsmith

Reading that last post scares the pants off me!

If your town council commissioned a major building in your town, and the contractor they chose gave his quote and planned the building on a photo of the site and a few written Q&As filled in by the town clerk, what would you, as a taxpayer, feel about the competence of your council?

You might well 'get away' with this. But I can't see where, in 3 visits, they can identify what went wrong with your own teeth, and sufficiently change your habits enough to give the new work a chance of lasting. (Implants need care too) How are you planning to look after the work once it's fitted?

What's your 'Plan 'B' if it all goes pear shaped?

Cottage Pie for life sounds the more sensible option. If this goes wrong it could easily be Complan for life!

welshdent

I am with toothsmith on being scared! Aside from anything .... other than THINKING you are getting more dentistry for your money ... why 11 implants? why crowning all your bottom teeth? Whats wrong with them to warrant needing crowns? Without realistically a CT scan or other radiographic views how can they possibly say there is sufficient bone to place that many implants?? Sounds a bit worrying to me to be honest. You may THINK you are getting more for your money but it reality you are probably getting a lot more hassle

Toothsmith

welshdent wrote: »

....... why crowning all your bottom teeth? Whats wrong with them to warrant needing crowns? .............

The lower front teeth, I personally do all I can to AVOID crowning them.

They are fiddly little teeth to start with. If they've had fillings, then there's even less sound structural tooth. If you then have to whack off another 1mm or so all the way round to prepare the crown, then there's literally nothing left.

The crowns will look fantastic for a couple of years - then the breakages will start.

elfen

Would a dentistry hospital be any help in reducing the price and training up some dentists?

welshdent

elfen wrote: »

Would a dentistry hospital be any help in reducing the price and training up some dentists?

they already exist - that's where we train already. They are usually associated with a university. Pricewise - no. They have tight budgets and can be very difficult to get patients accepted for treatment

Mark2spark

Thank you all for your thoughts on this, it's really appreciated.
Even though what I want to hear is 'go for the cheaper one, it's the best!'

I would say though that ball park costs and estimates can easily be done from photographic evidence in most industries, here he's got a panoramic x-ray and a UK dentist treatment plan to follow, so I don't really see why there's 'scoffing' at his stab at it.
I also don't see the purpose of identifying what went wrong with my teeth to arrive at this point. Clearly I ate too many extra strong mints and didn't clean my teeth regularly enough. The fact is, i'm here, I have no teeth, and something needs to be done. The UK dentist I have seen hasn't provided a treatment plan that involves 11 implants or so as i've already warned him off as it's unaffordable, there's no point in him wasting time and effort in working out a plan that won't be taken up. (£27,000 was the UK ball park anyway if you're interested, the Hungarian price at £12k is some £15k less for seemingly the same work).
I'm 50 years old and plan b is to live to 60 and then worry about what's next. That might seem a bit off the cuff but I had a heart attack when I was 42 and my father died when he was 54. It would be reasonable to assume that living beyond 80 for me will be exceptional.

I assume the lower teeth are to be 'crowned' welshdent so that they are evened up and the colour matches the new. I don't know if the terminology is the same here, it doesn't look like he plans to use conventional 'crowns' as i know them, maybe he means veneers or something. There doesn't appear to be a crown prep on the treatment plan anyway.

I also want to correct something I missread from the estimate, the 14 upper teeth are on the temporary denture only, there's 12 on the final fit, a one piece bridge for all 12 (on the upper) supported by 6 implants. It doesn't seem unreasonable?

Thanks again, gotta rush out again now, cheers, Mark

brook2jack

The reason why it's so important to know what went wrong with your own teeth is that implants can just as easily be lost as your own teeth.

If the treatment plan is to cement permanently a bridge or bridges to replace the missing teeth rather than use them as support for dentures, and involve your own teeth then you must change your oral hygiene habits. To keep this work for at least the ten years you want you will have to maintain the work to very high standards. Most implantologists would want you to see a hygienist every 3 months or so.

An opg is only a 2 dimensional depiction of a 3 dimensional object. It has limitations and has not even got the detail of periapical xrays. It is ok for screening things but is in no way suitable for such a complex case as this. I would only hope that the Hungary estimate us merely this and is dependant on further investigations and treatment planning .

Things can and do go wrong even when planned perfectly. I have a patient who has had problems with an implant he didn't know about I picked up on xray and I simply phoned up the practice who did it and they are sorting out his problem. Another person has problems from treatment done in India without discussing it with me , probably because I would have told them their gum problems would make them unsuitable for treatment. 3 months after treatment they have horrendous problems,cannot afford to go back to get it sorted out and not surprisingly face a long nhs wait which will ultimately lead to extraction of all the work done and full dentures.

Doing nothing will not harm you , doing the wrong thing in the name of cost cutting may cause worse harm.