Should the rich be squeezed more?

Procrastinator333

marklv wrote: »

I would cut corporation tax to balance the higher income tax. This would ensure that businesses invest in creating jobs and not pay out to fat cat executives.

That wouldn't work. If the business saved £10m on its corporation tax bill, but the directors were facing £10m extra of PAYE taxes etc, they would simply increase the pay to compensate for the extra tax rate.

marklv

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

So, say a high flying marketing executive, goes to live in America. He is now paid $300k. He pays all of his US taxes as required. You would want to tax that income even though he no longer lives in the UK? I'm not even sure that would be legal under international law. What happens if that person ends up taking US citizenship? You are then going to tax a US citizen who lives and works in the US?

Ok, lets just say this actually comes in to effect. You end up throwing them in to jail. You have now not only lost their tax income, but also have to pay the £100k a year it costs to keep someone in prison.

I just can't help but think you are a troll and don't actually believe any of this.

Obviously it depends on the circumstances. If someone leaves for the sole purpose of tax avoidance then it would be a criminal matter, if he just found a job overseas then it's up to him. Having said that, I would punish such people by ending their UK citizenship if they lived and worked out of the country for longer than a set number of years.

marklv

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

That wouldn't work. If the business saved £10m on its corporation tax bill, but the directors were facing £10m extra of PAYE taxes etc, they would simply increase the pay to compensate for the extra tax rate.

And that would increase the tax revenue, so all well and good.

Procrastinator333

marklv wrote: »

I wouldn't increase the marginal tax rate on anyone earning under £85k a year. How many people earn above that? Around 1% of the workforce, maybe less. And I would balance things out by reducing business rates and corporation tax, giving more incentives to businesses to employ people. I would also get rid of NI altogether and have a basic rate of income tax of around 31-32%. Huge business benefits!

Let me guess, £85k is about what you see as the limit of your earning potential?

Procrastinator333

marklv wrote: »

Obviously it depends on the circumstances. If someone leaves for the sole purpose of tax avoidance then it would be a criminal matter, if he just found a job overseas then it's up to him. Having said that, I would punish such people by ending their UK citizenship if they lived and worked out of the country for longer than a set number of years.

How would you even begin to assess that. Joe Blogs used to work in the London office of a bank. He now works in the New York office. How do you know if he moved because he wanted to pay less tax?

Or say that same bank decides to close its branch because all the staff keep asking to transfer to New York. Who would you put in prison then?

If someone has made a decision to leave the UK for a number of years, they probably aren't all that bothered about UK citizenship. What would be the point in going back to somewhere that takes 50% plus of your income and throws you in jail if you even think about paying less tax.

stueyhants

Marklv face facts the public sector costs more than we can afford. You can either put your fingers in your ear and say its not true or you can cut back and spend in the right areas and balance the books.

I'd love a Jag or posh car but I can't afford one, I have a skoda and very happy with it. I'd love a 5 bedroom mansion but I can't afford one so I've got a reasonable 4 bed house. We can afford a public sector within the UKs budget. Yes it might not have all the bells and whistles but it would be 'good enough'.

I think we should have a new law which limits government to a certain % of GDP that way it stops it spending money it shouldn't spend.

CLAPTON

OK so the top 1% of earners get over about 150,000 (I can't find the exact figure but that will do)

so if they were paid less or taxed higher lets see who would flood out of the country

-execs of most building societies
-ceo of many local authorities
-execs of water companies, gas utilities, electricity utilities
-lots and lots of bankers
-head of most housing trusts
-execs of most hospital amnd primary care trusts
-some doctors
-government ministers
-execs of huge numbers of quangos
-execs of the BBC
-top dogs at ofsted

-obviously all those hedge funds managers

the issue, which I accept is very difficult to solve, is that of executive pay and how its determined and whether there is a ready source of supply if the existing execs all walked out. There is a growing disconnect between the pay of top people and their value.

most of the execs of our major companies are not really entreprenteurs but career managers who rise to the top of the pile... many may well be clever and bright but there is loads waiting in the wings

genuine enterpenteurs are a different matter

marklv

stueyhants wrote: »

Marklv face facts the public sector costs more than we can afford. You can either put your fingers in your ear and say its not true or you can cut back and spend in the right areas and balance the books.

I'd love a Jag or posh car but I can't afford one, I have a skoda and very happy with it. I'd love a 5 bedroom mansion but I can't afford one so I've got a reasonable 4 bed house. We can afford a public sector within the UKs budget. Yes it might not have all the bells and whistles but it would be 'good enough'.

I think we should have a new law which limits government to a certain % of GDP that way it stops it spending money it shouldn't spend.

There you go - back to the public sector, blame everything on that. Medical care, education, police, armed forces, public administration - nothing of that is worth anything to you. Well, it matters to me and many others.

What if your house was burgled by violent chavs one evening, and you dialled 999? What if the police didn't arrive until 40 minutes later because they were too busy with other incidents due to staff shortages and you got beaten up very badly? What if your wife and children were raped by these lowlifes? What then? Would you still support cuts in the public sector?

marklv

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

How would you even begin to assess that. Joe Blogs used to work in the London office of a bank. He now works in the New York office. How do you know if he moved because he wanted to pay less tax?

Or say that same bank decides to close its branch because all the staff keep asking to transfer to New York. Who would you put in prison then?

If someone has made a decision to leave the UK for a number of years, they probably aren't all that bothered about UK citizenship. What would be the point in going back to somewhere that takes 50% plus of your income and throws you in jail if you even think about paying less tax.

I would introduce legislation to make all this very difficult. It can be done, quite easily.

stueyhants

marklv wrote: »

There you go - back to the public sector, blame everything on that. Medical care, education, police, armed forces, public administration - nothing of that is worth anything to you. Well, it matters to me and many others.

What if your house was burgled by violent chavs one evening, and you dialled 999? What if the police didn't arrive until 40 minutes later because they were too busy with other incidents due to staff shortages and you got beaten up very badly? What if your wife and children were raped by these lowlifes? What then? Would you still support cuts in the public sector?

Yes I would, government shouldn't try and do everything.

There is no point getting emotional about it. We can't afford it and one way or the other the public sector will be reduced to match our earning ability. Public sector workers can either help and save the most important services and accept cuts in other areas. Or they can become militant which will just cost more in the long run and mean deeper cuts.

You can't keep on overspending, eventually you have to pay back what you owe.