Tories' tax breaks for married couples - would it make you change your mind?

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

i think nick clegg had the best response to this actually.

do you think people really get married for tax breaks? or that that is even a good reason to get married?

marriage is not of itself a good thing. good marriages are a good thing. bad marriages are hellish.

for some people being single will be the better choice.

for some people it is not a choice. they are left by their partners or their partners die. personally i don't think it is very admirable to penalise those who find themselves in that situation.

look at katie price. constantly married. yet i don't think a particularly strong role model.

I agree with all of this :eek: ninky, how can this be?

But looking at it inversely I do know people who don't get married because it makes the better off, whether honestly or fraudulently. :mad: This seems very poor too.

Isn't their a widows pension for your example in the other post? (a question, I genuinely don't know)

Its also fair to point out marriage can involve (sometimes financial sometimes other) sacrifice on the part of one partner. If I choice to have the same career as my husband there would undoubtedly be more pressure on our relationship...things like cancelled holiday for one of us and not the other. This sort of thing is dealable with when I am not working, and is a vital part of why if I have a ''career'' it needs to be self employed or on very flexible terms, that most employers couldn't meet.

Pete111

ninky wrote: »

i think nick clegg had the best response to this actually.

do you think people really get married for tax breaks? or that that is even a good reason to get married?

marriage is not of itself a good thing. good marriages are a good thing. bad marriages are hellish.

for some people being single will be the better choice.

for some people it is not a choice. they are left by their partners or their partners die. personally i don't think it is very admirable to penalise those who find themselves in that situation.

look at katie price. constantly married. yet i don't think a particularly strong role model.

I agree with most of the above (Particularly re Katie Price!) and no, I don't think people get married for tax breaks, but that is not a reason they should not be considered.

I take your point re widows etc but tax points and rationale with their advantages and disadvantages are rarely nimble enough to keep pace with individual lives. As such they should be aimed at the country as a whole to acheive an end be that fiscal, societal or a mix of both.

I think we almost subconciously do down marriage in this country and would prefer to see it given the same level of importance as other countries. After all, there is a reason that Human civilisation has adopted it over many centuries as the default position for long term relationships.

Maybe I'm an optimist but I think such moves could eventually help lead to a more stable society. We are in a bit of a mess on that front. Anyone who, like me, was travelling through London Victoria station the other Thursday evening can attest to how utterly nuts things are getting....

ukcarper

lostinrates wrote: »

I agree with all of this :eek: ninky, how can this be?

But looking at it inversely I do know people who don't get married because it makes the better off, whether honestly or fraudulently. :mad: This seems very poor too.

Does it make much difference unless fraudulently.

lostinrates

Pete111 wrote: »

. Anyone who, like me, was travelling through London Victoria station the other Thursday evening can attest to how utterly nuts things are getting....

I'm intrigued, what was happening at Victoria on Thursday?

lostinrates

ukcarper wrote: »

Does it make much difference unless fraudulently.

I have no idea, tbh, but that it is able to easily happen fraudulently is a problem with the structure of society too, I guess.

How do we get people to be more honest? Feel more part of a society?

ninky_2

Pete111 wrote: »

I think we almost subconciously do down marriage in this country.

actually i think we overrate it. as a cure all for all societies ills when it's not. and culturally people are constantly being spun the happy ever after lie.

this money would be better spent offering pre-marriage guidance counselling for those who wanted it or something similar.

as i say, good marriages are good. but bad marriages are nothing to be encouraged. by lumping all marriage together and saying it is the bedrock of society i think you just encourage more people to go into it with their eyes closed.

Pete111

lostinrates wrote: »

I'm intrigued, what was happening at Victoria on Thursday?

A mass brawl with school kids resulting in one being surrounded and stabbed to death. It was major news at the end of March. It's sad to say but it probably wouldn't have been such a big news item had it not happened in the middle of the underground station booking area in rush hour.

Not a pretty sight - I saw the aftermath - lots of very shocked people

Pete111

ninky wrote: »

actually i think we overrate it. as a cure all for all societies ills when it's not. and culturally people are constantly being spun the happy ever after lie.

this money would be better spent offering pre-marriage guidance counselling for those who wanted it or something similar.

as i say, good marriages are good. but bad marriages are nothing to be encouraged. by lumping all marriage together and saying it is the bedrock of society i think you just encourage more people to go into it with their eyes closed.

Fair enough if that is your view - I agree insofar as that it is certainly not to be taken lightly.

lostinrates

Pete111 wrote: »

A mass brawl with school kids resulting in one being surrounded and stabbed to death. It was major news at the end of March. It's sad to say but it probably wouldn't have been succh a big news item had it not happened in the middle of the underground station booking area in rush hour.

Not a pretty sight - I saw the aftermath - lots of very shocked people

How awful. I just don't know whats happened in side our cities. I used to go through London fearless in late teens and early twenties, with never a probem, yet now...shudders. You are right Pete111, this situation is terrible and , perhaps not marriage, but definitely relates to something very, very seriously adrift in us/society today.

Pete111

lostinrates wrote: »

How awful. I just don't know whats happened in side our cities. I used to go through London fearless in late teens and early twenties, with never a probem, yet now...shudders. You are right Pete111, this situation is terrible and , perhaps not marriage, but definitely relates to something very, very seriously adrift in us/society today.

I know.

Saw my folks a couple of weeks back and my dad was doing that typical Daily mail reading old duffer thing about how 'in his day' things were better. In reflex I took the mick out of him for being old (which to be fair he is..)

Later I thought for a second about what has really changed in the last few decades. For me it boils down to the fact that our school kids are killing each other and it's not even a big deal anymore unless it happens in a really public place. ..

Terrifying.