Forum Home» Money Saving Polls

MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Anne put the animals down? - Page 21

New Post Advanced Search
Important update! We have recently reviewed and updated our Forum Rules and FAQs. Please take the time to familiarise yourself with the latest version.

MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Anne put the animals down?

edited 8 April 2010 at 9:22PM in Money Saving Polls
235 replies 31.8K views
11819212324

Replies

  • edited 9 April 2010 at 12:38PM
    ZoelikesjamZoelikesjam Forumite
    416 posts
    100 Posts First Anniversary
    ✭✭
    edited 9 April 2010 at 12:38PM
    NO;Bloody well not! How can you pose a problem like this? People should think of any outcome before they ever take on an animal, even if it is a trivial problem! I'm sorry, but being a vet nurse no self respecting vet will put down animals just 'because' and if they do they need bloody well reporting. Any vet will repsond with animal sanct's, rescue centres and a referal to another vet if this is really what anne wants. Any decent vet/vet nurse/vet surgery(if asked)/animal lover will take the time and energy to find a suitable new home or shelter. It is not hard to find a shelter. Even at the very least the RSPCA will take in all the animals. Write to your local newspaper, call the local radio station. Put up posters in shop windows, 'hire' out the ponies to young children wanting to learn about horse's(If they are well enough to take this) Call the PDSA who will treat three of the animals, anne would need to decied which three need the most medical care. This isnt as black and white as people are making it seem, 'do it/dont do it'
    There are plenty of other options. For heavens sake, if the ponies arent that ill, i am sure there will be a little girl somewhere who would love to care for the animal and learn about it, I am sure mummy and daddy would pay anne some money to please their child!
    I am shocked at Martin tho, you have given a couple of 'lighthearted lectures' lol but you havent given us YOUR opinion. I for one am curious to know if you would put any of your pets to sleep because you couldnt afford them. I am interested in this program you are doing however, and i do hope to see you giving lots of our colective advice before euthenasia is put forward as an option.

    My solution? Obviously she has a large house, with large land to house pony's, dogs cats.....rehouse the pony who is taking up the land, sell the HUGE house with LARGE ammount of land....rent somewhere substantially cheaper. Use the money to look after the other animals. If on benefits use the PDSA as others have sugested.

    Sorry if others dont agree but this is so wrong
  • BigMummaFBigMummaF Forumite
    4.3K posts
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:
    Should Anne put the animals down?

    1. Anne's always been an animal lover and 2.over the years has acquired many strays. She's got a pony, two goats, four dogs, three cats and a hamster - 3. many getting on in years and with medical problems. 4. A year ago she lost her job - her savings have gone, and she's struggling to keep her home. 5. Her biggest cost is the animals' welfare & food. 6. Nobody wants to take them. ....

    1. An animal lover, so very likely already knows a thing or two about available charities, sanctuaries etc.
    2. Presumably with that kind of menagerie & no 3, already has some dealings with a veterinary surgery.
    4. A year is a flippin' long time when you're struggling to make ends meet. A pet hate of mine are those ridiculous "celebrity" shows where they presume to tell folk how to survive after just a week on benefits themselves :mad: And there is no mention of 'Anne' being on any benefit here.
    When my amazing BIL passed away, his wife was also in the middle of being made redundant & had already been off work for three months to look after him at home. When it came time to assess her possible benefit, she was told that Pet Insurance was NOT a priority & did not count as an essential payment. When she asked what she was supposed to do if the pooch ever needed treatment, she was told--quite callously--if she couldn't afford it, then The Injection would have to sort it for her!
    5. She is trying hard not to neglect her animals, so please credit 'Anne' with a little more compassion than is being bandied about. The way I have interpreted some posts--& totally agree it is difficult to put inflection where intended when writing it down!--folk have put the poor woman in the same class as a staffie-toting chav dealer! And before you say anything!!! Our pooch is a staffie/english bull X & no! We don't deal, [unless it's cards for a game of Snap!:p] but that is another discussion topic all together...
    6. NO BOD-DEE WANTS THEM!

    There are so many grey areas in this scenario that have been thrown up in the discussion, but I do feel that becoming so heated without having access to ALL the facts is part of the reason folk end up in exactly this kind of situation. How frightening it is, to want to ask for help but terrified of the accusations & vilifying if you do.

    Tolerance People, please & just a smidge
    less of the self-righteousness?
    Full time Carer for Mum; harassed mother of three;
    loving & loved by two 4-legged babies.

  • Clive_WoodyClive_Woody Forumite
    5.5K posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭
    NO;Bloody well not! How can you pose a problem like this? People should think of any outcome before they ever take on an animal, even if it is a trivial problem! I'm sorry, but being a vet nurse no self respecting vet will put down animals just 'because' and if they do they need bloody well reporting.

    Who do you suggest they are reported to? This is not illegal.
    My hypothetical scenario....
    you are in a loving realtionship, you find yourself happily pregnant. you have a wonderful baby. you are happy. Partner leaves, pays no maintenence, you lose your job. you have to put your child to sleep because you cant eat yourself.
    Sorry, replace that paragraph with pet. you find yourself adopting a puppy.

    We are talking about euthanasing animals here not killing children. Maybe you should start a new thread if you wish to discuss killing children as that is not the topic for discussion here. To compare the two is hysterical nonsense IMHO.

    :D
    "We act as though comfort and luxury are the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about” – Albert Einstein
  • The PDSA etc make a charge to put animals down - it's about £50 for a cat, so I imagine it would be more for goats and ponies etc. So even that is not a straightforward solution.

    I am taking the scenario exactly as described OBVIOUSLY if there is wriggle room to find someone to take these animals then you wouldn't put them down.

    But assuming no one wants them... she is obviously the priority here; if she is homeless then they are going to be put down anyway. I like the poster above's scenario that if she has a pony and goats she has some land/large house which could be sold... so maybe the thing to do is to work out which animals cost the most, and where cuts can be made?

    So any animal which requires expensive vetinary care to keep it alive, (which personally I think is not very kind anyway - unlike a human who can say, enough, I don't want to be treated, let me die, an animal can't) I would suggest should be put down, regardless of its age. If the animal doesn't really have any quality of life, humans shouldn't be allowed to extend it just because they want the animal there.

    Then I would look at those animals which are my real favourites and which give most comfort... I guess this would probably be a cat/dog rather than a hamster or goat. I would keep that animal (maximum two, preferably one!), subject to the proviso above about vets bills. When you are going through a horrible trauma, a loving pet is a great help.

    Then I think, depending on how desperate the situation was and whether I had sold everything else possible to scrape some money together/could move etc, I think I would have the other animals put down.
  • aliasojoaliasojo Forumite
    23.1K posts
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    We are talking about euthanasing animals here not killing children. Maybe you should start a new thread if you wish to discuss killing children as that is not the topic for discussion here. To compare the two is hysterical nonsense IMHO.

    :D

    I really don't want to start a fight....honest :D, but you don't seem able to take on board that other people may view a life as a life and indeed do feel their animals are like children to them. You may feel this is ridiculous to compare the two, but it clearly isn't to others and you need to respect other people's views too without dismissing them as 'hysterical nonsense', that's just not fair. :D < obligatory grin. ;)
    BigMummaF wrote: »
    1. An animal lover, so very likely already knows a thing or two about available charities, sanctuaries etc.

    Sorry but I don't agree with this point. I'm an animal lover complete with pets and the most I know about is where my vet is. I think many people wont know about what facilities are out there unless they've had cause to need them in the past.
    Herman - MP for all! :)
  • Important update! We have recently reviewed and updated our Forum Rules and FAQs. Please take the time to familiarise yourself with the latest version.
  • Clive_WoodyClive_Woody Forumite
    5.5K posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭
    aliasojo wrote: »
    I really don't want to start a fight....honest :D, but you don't seem able to take on board that other people may view a life as a life and indeed do feel their animals are like children to them. You may feel this is ridiculous to compare the two, but it clearly isn't to others and you need to respect other people's views too without dismissing them as 'hysterical nonsense', that's just not fair. :D < obligatory grin. ;)

    I appreciate some people think the life of a hamster is comparable with that of a child, but this does not stop me thinking this is utter nonsense and nothing but an hysterical outburst.

    My feelings on this subject are as strong as theirs and I find it hard to respect their views when so few of them will conceed that people who do not agree with their opinions are not necessarily wrong.

    :D
    "We act as though comfort and luxury are the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about” – Albert Einstein
  • mehermeher
    15.9K posts
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is our instinctive response to sense another person's or animal's pain or suffering, not a moral one. For the same reason we cannot feel selectively. So it shouldn't be suppressed, otherwise the ability to empathise would gradually diminish in us. So, no, inflicting any form of cruelyt shouldn't be allowed as suggested in the OP. The starting point probably is to find animal life and rights the same as humans - to challenge and address any prejudice against them like we would consider all other prejudices. Returning to the dilemma, I liked that solution suggested about setting up a charity to feed and care for these animals so that they don't have to leave the environment they must have grown fond of.
  • Clive_WoodyClive_Woody Forumite
    5.5K posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭
    meher wrote: »
    It is our instinctive response to sense another person's or animal's pain or suffering, not a moral one. For the same reason we cannot feel selectively. So it shouldn't be suppressed, otherwise the ability to empathise would gradually diminish in us. So, no, inflicting any form of cruelyt shouldn't be allowed as suggested in the OP.

    Many people are very poor at empathy which does not support your suggestion that it is an instinctive response, rather a learned one. People cannot feel selectively, but many people view things quite differently and therefore have widely differing opinions on solutions and how they feel about them.

    No form of curelty was suggested in the OP, the question was whether the animals should be put down.

    :D
    "We act as though comfort and luxury are the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about” – Albert Einstein
  • harryhoundharryhound Forumite
    2.7K posts
    I have just set the rat trap out in the "barn" - what alternative would you suggest?
    I know it our fault: "have bird feeder get rats".
  • ZoelikesjamZoelikesjam Forumite
    416 posts
    100 Posts First Anniversary
    ✭✭
    Who do you suggest they are reported to? This is not illegal.
    I know its not illegal, it was MY OPINION which you seem so keen to point out is everyones right to have. It was and still is my opinion any vet willing to put an animal to sleep just because the owner has no money should not be a vet! The whole purpose of our job is to help animals and care for them, not put them down like they are a bloody inconvience. Any self respecting vet, and one who cares about his/her job description would sit down and discuss several options with the owner. If the owner still insisted on having the animal put down I know my vet would refer her to another vets surgery for a second opinion. She would do everything in her power to keep those animals alive, providing they arent in any pain/
    We are talking about euthanasing animals here not killing children. Maybe you should start a new thread if you wish to discuss killing children as that is not the topic for discussion here. To compare the two is hysterical nonsense IMHO.
    As much as i LOATH agreeing with you here it was in part an angry outburst, and i have subsequently changed my post. HOWEVER I dont think it is hysterical nonsense to compare the two. I love my animals like i love my children, and the thought of having them put down makes me feel slightly ill. However I would have to figure out what the heck to do if my husband lost his job and we found ourselves in a situation where we had no money.
    What would I do? I have three children. If hubby lost his job and I had to go on benefits I would be in a bit of a pickle. I would, however gladly eat a slice of bread a day to see my children fed. I would cut back everything, move into a smaller property, use less heat, sell as many of my things to generate a bit of money, work in macdonalds if i had to. But, say that didnt generate enough money to feed my three beautiful children. Say i literally had no food in the cuboards. Would I phone social services and put them up for adoption so they would be fed and warm? No, I would do everything posible in my power to look after my charges. Exactly the same for my cats and rabbits. If i couldnt cope i would have to do SOMETHING!
    I can honestly say if a lady came into our surgery with this dilema by the end of the day several of the animals would have been rehomed by the staff. I for one would end up taking the hampster and a cat home:rotfl:

    I know this is an emotive situation, and I feel for anyone who is ever put in this situation, I would love to think all responsible animal owners think of every eventuality, but they dont, noone can predict what will happen further down the line.
    I really don't want to start a fight....honest :D, but you don't seem able to take on board that other people may view a life as a life and indeed do feel their animals are like children to them. You may feel this is ridiculous to compare the two, but it clearly isn't to others and you need to respect other people's views too without dismissing them as 'hysterical nonsense', that's just not fair. :D < obligatory grin. ;)
    Thanks Aliasojo, I didnt want to upset anyone with my comment, because it was just that, MY comment. However after reading some of the posts clive has put I am not suprised he dived on my post to pull apart my opinion. Everyone has then and just because I dont agree with his, is it his right to tell me I am being hysterical? Hm
    On the note of feeling animals are like our children, I personally do have a cat who is for all intents and purpose's my baby. She was brought up by me, fed by me, raised by me long before i had children, so she is effectivly my first born...opened my eyes to two hourly night feeds...and i still went on to have three children!!!
    I like the poster above's scenario that if she has a pony and goats she has some land/large house which could be sold... so maybe the thing to do is to work out which animals cost the most, and where cuts can be made?
    It is curious. If she has all those animals one would asume she is living in a large house with a fair ammount of land, or the rspca would already have removed some of the animals! She would have several options. If te house is rented Anne needs to give it up, rehome the pony's, goats and posibly some of the dogs if not all through an animal sanc' and rent a far cheaper property. As Anne is not working this would be the better option, I am prety sure she would be getting benefits and they would pay the rent? If Anne is living in a large property they will not pay all of that rent. So straight away thats a major problem solved as she isnt having to top up her rent AND it would qualifie her for PDSA treatment for three of her animals. You are only intitled to it if you claim housing benefit...or it used to be!
    If the house is brought, and anne is not working how is she still living there? Benefits(again i think) will only cover interest? Sell the house, move into a poxy little ground floor flat(I presume it is anne alone) if she is keeping some of the animals make sure she has a small garden(plenty of space for walkies!) I am prety sure the sale on a large house would cover the cost of a little flat, or better still, use the sale money, get rid of some of her debts and rent, then get the rent paid by housing benefit? Surely this is some sort of solution?

    Oh, and just for the record,
    Nobody wants to take them.
    The RSPCA will ALWAYS take in animals
Sign In or Register to comment.

Quick links

Essential Money | Who & Where are you? | Work & Benefits | Household and travel | Shopping & Freebies | About MSE | The MoneySavers Arms | Covid-19 & Coronavirus Support