Unenforceable HP agreement signed off trade premises??

Unenforceable

Hi everyone.

This is my first post so please bear with me and I apologise if it is posted in the wrong section.

I signed a hire purchase agreement with black horse finance in July 2008 for a BMW 1 series. I found the car on autotrader and contacted the dealer who was advertising the car. I explained that I was very interested in it and I negotiated a good price on it. I then said that i would like to get it on finance.

The salesman advised that because I live in manchester and the dealer is in London, the best way to do the deal was over the phone and he would try and get me a line of finance in place through blackhorse. He me all of my personal details and then said he will call me once the credit was in place.

Around an hour later he called me and told me that I had been accepted for the finance and that he would fax the contract over to me to sign and send back to him so that he can 'pay out the deal' before I went and collected it. He said that should only take 24 hours at the latest.

The next day he called me and told me the finance was 'paid out' and that i was free to collect the vehicle. I did 2 days later and I have had the car ever since.

My question for everyone is simple. Should I have received notification of my cancellation rights as of the consumer credit act as the agreement was signed off trade premisies? If so, would my agreement be deemed unenforceable if I did not receive this?

All the research I have tried to do myself points in this direction but i wanted to get as many different opinions as possible and also some advise on what to do if it is unenforceable?

I would appreciate any help on this,

Many thanks

Dean

DarkConvict

Your cancellation writes were probably on the contract you signed and sent back.

I am not sure you had hire purchase though, or whether it was an ordinary loan. The only way to check enforceability is to send a CCA request - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2305463

Unenforceable

I have looked at the agreemnet and it definately a hire purchase agreement. It says 'hire purchase agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974'.

There is absolutely no reference whatsoever about cancelling the agreement in the first 5 days. The only thing it does say is: 'You have no right to cancel theis agreement under the comsumer credit act 1974'.

Surely this has got to be wrong?

DarkConvict

If you have the agreement, scan it in and host it up on something like photobucket. Post the url on the forums and one of the regulars like NID might be able to read over the jargon.

ILW

DarkConvict wrote: »

If you have the agreement, scan it in and host it up on something like photobucket. Post the url on the forums and one of the regulars like NID might be able to read over the jargon.

I think NID does know his stuff, but is generally not that impressed by people who are just trying to wriggle out of debts that they are quite capable of paying. May be wrong though.

DarkConvict

NIDs stance is you shouldn't pay unenforceable debts, or so i believe.

Anyway, if someone decides not to pay, they can still issue defaults and late payment markers, which could cost anyone using credit potentially £100's in the future anyway.

Unenforceable

Guys i appreciate your advise but all I wish to know is based on what I have said. Would the debt be regarded as unenforcable if that was the case? Should I contact the lender? would they then put in writing that the contract is terminated? Do i then pass it to credit reference agencies so no adverse mark is being recorded on my profile?

I pay every debt that I have (which to be fair is not alot). i have never missed a payment. My stance however is that if they have not done their job correctly and are in breech of the CCA then I am well within my rights to deem it unenforcable.

Lets face it, if the shoe was on the other foot, and I started missing my payments and I am in breech of contract, then I would rightly have the book thrown at me so what is the difference?

woody01

Unenforceable wrote: »

Hi everyone.

This is my first post so please bear with me and I apologise if it is posted in the wrong section.

I signed a hire purchase agreement with black horse finance in July 2008 for a BMW 1 series. I found the car on autotrader and contacted the dealer who was advertising the car. I explained that I was very interested in it and I negotiated a good price on it. I then said that i would like to get it on finance.

The salesman advised that because I live in manchester and the dealer is in London, the best way to do the deal was over the phone and he would try and get me a line of finance in place through blackhorse. He me all of my personal details and then said he will call me once the credit was in place.

Around an hour later he called me and told me that I had been accepted for the finance and that he would fax the contract over to me to sign and send back to him so that he can 'pay out the deal' before I went and collected it. He said that should only take 24 hours at the latest.

The next day he called me and told me the finance was 'paid out' and that i was free to collect the vehicle. I did 2 days later and I have had the car ever since.

My question for everyone is simple. Should I have received notification of my cancellation rights as of the consumer credit act as the agreement was signed off trade premisies? If so, would my agreement be deemed unenforceable if I did not receive this?

All the research I have tried to do myself points in this direction but i wanted to get as many different opinions as possible and also some advise on what to do if it is unenforceable?

I would appreciate any help on this,

Many thanks

Dean

So you got a loan.
Got the car.
Decided you don't want to pay for it.

N-I-D is very good with this kind of thing, but i also believe that he only helps the 'CAN'T PAYers' rather than the 'CAN'T BE ARS3D TO PAYers' (which you obviously are).

~Brock~

Let's assume that the contract was of the type that should have been signed on trade premises, and therefore you (as you suspect) have not been given the opportunity to cancel the loan within any normally available cooling off period.......

1. The agreement was taken out after April 2007, and in any case the breach by the lender is not in relation to any prescribed terms, which means that a court may still order that the agreement is enforceable.

2. If it was brought before a court, they would look at the amount of detriment you have suffered. At face value, the fact that you have been happily driving around in the car for the last 2 years and paying the monthly payments for it without difficulty (I assume) the amount of detriment you have suffered is precisely nil, and the court would rule accordingly.

3. The definition of enforceability was clarified in the McGuffick case last year. The lender is still perfectly entitled to ask for and expect payment, as well as report the conduct of the account to credit reference agencies. Bearing in mind, even though you may well be correct about the cooling off period, your chances of escaping the debt are pretty slim, do you really want to risk screwing up your credit history over this?

PNPSUKNET

Just remember whos car it is, until paid it belongs to them.

DarkConvict

Unenforceable, you need to understand unenforceable debts are not wiped off, this has been though the high courts already and in agreement with OFT. McGuffick v RBS http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/mcguffick-v-rbs.pdf

If you stop paying, they can still send demands for payment, still record defaults and late payments your credit file will be destroyed if you stop paying, and if it is a HP agreement secured against the car, they can likely still take the car as it is their property until fully paid.

Unenforceablility is good for those on DMPs, so they can prioritise debt payments or use it to negotiate lower F&F settlements, it is not a way out of your financial responsibilities.