National Care Service

JayScottGreenspan

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

People get "het up" about it, as you put it, because they want to leave a legacy to their children/family and the money has already been taxed.

You're looking at it from the point of view of the dead person.

I'm looking at it from the point of view of the living.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

JayScottGreenspan wrote: »

You're looking at it from the point of view of the dead person.

I'm looking at it from the point of view of the living.

Sparti!!!! has mental problems.

He is an avid stalker on MSE.

Just have a look at the way he is following me about.

He also PMs me often for no reason.

I would watch what you say & stay clear. He is not worth the time.

He also has a habit of editing posts & responses, so you are always better of quoting him if you have to.

Spartacus_Mills

JayScottGreenspan wrote: »

You're looking at it from the point of view of the dead person.

I'm looking at it from the point of view of the living.

No I am not. I am looking at it from the point of view of voters in older age demographics and how I think it will affect many of their thought processes in voting.

ukcarper

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

I think the only solution is to increase taxation to pay for it. It is the only solution that would guarantee the money required.

I am not saying the Death Tax is right or wrong, just identifying why I think it is unpalatable to a decent portion of the electorate. If Labour want to go for the Death Tax their only viable option is, if they win the election, implement it immediately in the hope they can tighten up the regs and rules with regards to IHT avoidance and gifting as well as hoping they have 5 years before the next election and people forget/are less concerned about it.

So you think a rise in income tax will be more popular then a death tax. With a rising elderly population I do not think it is fair to put an additional tax burden on the young and would rather pay a 10% death tax than that.

misskool

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Would not work. It does not incentivise people to put aside for their old age or make provision for themselves. They would simply gift the money or spend, spend, spend.

The only solution to this issue from what I can see is, if we are to have a universal system, is for the politicians to take the decision to add it to general taxation and ring fence that element of tax. Not a palatable idea granted but it would guarantee the money would be collected and people would pay over their lifetime of work.

Then make everyone have insurance. All paid up. If they die at 55, insurance pays out for next of kin. If they die at 80 and have lots of care, insurance pays the state for the care received in lieu.

It's unfair to collect your payments over a lifetime for a service you're never going to use

Spartacus_Mills

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

He also PMs me often for no reason.

I PM'd you twice. Once to ask you who you thought my alias was as you made a nonsensical accusation with no basis in face and a second time to take a potential flame war off the board as you had attacked me for no reason in a thread. I felt that a reasonable thing to do.

Your reply was to post that I had PM's you and to whine and cry about it on the board so I left it at that.

I would not say twice in the year and a bit I have been here is close to "often", I would have said "infrequently" would be more appropriate however given your lack of analytical skills and less than forensic attention to detail with your posts it is not unexpected.

Now can I just ask you here to ignore my posts and I will ignore yours. I do not want you to stalk me from thread to thread when I am debating with these good people in this forum. All of whom are making their points reasonably and well and I am enjoying debating with them.

Spartacus_Mills

ukcarper wrote: »

So you think a rise in income tax will be more popular then a death tax. With a rising elderly population I do not think it is fair to put an additional tax burden on the young and would rather pay a 10% death tax than that.

I said it would be unpalatable but I do not think it unreasonable. Your point about the ageing population is a fair one.

The problem is, like all taxes, it is popular if it does not affect you personally.

Spartacus_Mills

misskool wrote: »

Then make everyone have insurance. All paid up. If they die at 55, insurance pays out for next of kin. If they die at 80 and have lots of care, insurance pays the state for the care received in lieu.

It's unfair to collect your payments over a lifetime for a service you're never going to use

But that goes for the state pension we pay into. If I died now the 30 years I have paid my NI goes out the window.

The problem with having insurance per se is it gets more expensive the older you get and as has been seen in the States companies are not averse to hiking the premiums quite sharply for the elderly. We cannot have that happen. As part of the National Insurance possibly, but the Tories are right it is a tax on jobs especially as the employer also has to pay it.

JayScottGreenspan

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

No I am not. I am looking at it from the point of view of voters in older age demographics and how I think it will affect many of their thought processes in voting.

Okay, you're looking at it for the point of view of living people who are anticipating the state of affairs after their death.

Anyway, I'm sure young people eyeing a large inheritance would vote against inheritance tax too. Self interest rules.

It's still the least bad tax IMO.

misskool

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

But that goes for the state pension we pay into. If I died now the 30 years I have paid my NI goes out the window.

The problem with having insurance per se is it gets more expensive the older you get and as has been seen in the States companies are not averse to hiking the premiums quite sharply for the elderly. We cannot have that happen. As part of the National Insurance possibly, but the Tories are right it is a tax on jobs especially as the employer also has to pay it.

That's the point. You pay more as you get older.

Because the older you are the more likely you are to need care.

Why are people so poor at future provision planning?