A return to MIRAS - what do you think?

StevieJ

Kohoutek wrote: »

Whenever the government grants tax relief, on businesses or charities, the taxpayer is subsidising that business or charity by not collecting tax where it has the legal right to demand it.

Why should that apply to BTL landlords? I don't think it's a socially desirable or helpful activity, so why grant tax relief? If it's a 'business' where only one person gains, then I don't think there should be any tax relief. The government should encourage charitable organisations and entrepreneurs that create employment, but why would you want to encourage BTL?

Pardon! providing a roof over someones head after the govt have sold off all the council houses, your posts are becoming bizzare.

Kohoutek

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you would discriminate against all one person 'businesses' and not allow business expenses to be offset against turnover?

No, that's wasn't my point. I would discriminate against one person property businesses, i.e. BTL landlords.

StevieJ wrote: »

Pardon! providing a roof over someones head after the govt have sold off all the council houses, your posts are becoming bizzare.

People like Fergus Wilson are just providing a roof over someone's head are they?. Oh please. The government should be providing more social accommodation, but it can do that by other ways apart from encouraging BTL.

CLAPTON

Just to be clear
If one person is a landlord that is BAD
if a corporation / local government / housing association is a landlord (whether well run or not ) then that's GOOD

StevieJ

CLAPTON wrote: »

Just to be clear
If one person is a landlord that is BAD
if a corporation / local government / housing association is a landlord (whether well run or not ) then that's GOOD

The Duke of Westminster must be the devil incarnate:eek:

Kohoutek

The point I was making is that I don't see why there should be tax relief on mortgages for BTL landlords. Why should there be tax relief on businesses that generate money from unearned income like the rent from a property?

When someone like Wilson exploits that tax advantage with his ridiculous property empire, it just drives up the price of property for everyone. From my experience, a couple of friends who do BTL - the reason they does it is to make money, definitely not altruism. Why should taxpayers subsidise those kinds of activities?

StevieJ wrote: »

The Duke of Westminster must be the devil incarnate:eek:

There's a difference between landlords that own the property outright already, because they aren't claiming tax relief. Tax relief is paid everyone that pays taxes, so it is a subsidy.

StevieJ

Kohoutek wrote: »

The point I was making is that I don't see why there should be tax relief on mortgages for BTL landlords. Why should there be tax relief on businesses that generate money from unearned income like the rent from a property?

Why is it unearned? If it was I would be doing it

Kohoutek

StevieJ wrote: »

Why is it unearned? If it was I would be doing it

Because it's not derived from work. Receiving rental income isn't the same as wages or income from a full time job or part time job, it's legally in the same category as dividends or interest from bank accounts. Being responsible for maintenance of the property isn't enough to make it work.

Not my definition - it's the one the government uses.

CLAPTON

Kohoutek wrote: »

The point I was making is that I don't see why there should be tax relief on mortgages for BTL landlords. Why should there be tax relief on businesses that generate money from unearned income like the rent from a property?

When someone like Wilson exploits that tax advantage with his ridiculous property empire, it just drives up the price of property for everyone. From my experience, a couple of friends who do BTL - the reason they does it is to make money, definitely not altruism. Why should taxpayers subsidise those kinds of activities?



There's a difference between landlords that own the property outright already, because they aren't claiming tax relief. Tax relief is paid everyone that pays taxes, so it is a subsidy.

being able to offset costs against turnover is common to all businesses and interest is simply a cost and so can be offset.

it isn't any more or less a subsidy than say a business offsetting interest on a van loan


basically, you have a dislike (shared by many on the board ) of landlords (other that the state premusably)

Kohoutek

CLAPTON wrote: »

being able to offset costs against turnover is common to all businesses and interest is simply a cost and so can be offset.

it isn't any more or less a subsidy than say a business offsetting interest on a van loan

basically, you have a dislike (shared by many on the board ) of landlords (other that the state premusably)

Well the original point I made was that unlike other businesses, BTL landlords don't create jobs or provide useful services like a plumber or electrician.

So, according to you, there's no difference between gaining control of land and using it to extract rent, and useful, productive commerce?

The state should encourage job creation and business that provide useful skills, why would it want to encourage people to take out mortgages and get a tenant to pay back their mortgage + profit? I think it would be more appropriate for the government to support housing associations and local authorities to expand the amount of social housing available, not individuals with rent-seeking tendencies.

noh

No

silvercar wrote: »

You used to be able to get £30k MIRAS each as a couple, but only one lot of £30k if you were married. I remember people moaning how they were losing out by getting married. I don't think the WIKI article has the dates quite right. I thought it was finally abolished before 2000, possibly as early as 1990. I remember it was restricted to basic rate and then 15%, possibly down to 10%, then abolished.

No it came to an end in 2000.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/REManual/re500.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ria/miraswithdrawal.pdf
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/tax/its-lucky-for-some-in-the-miras-lottery-723617.html