CSA wanting more money than I can pay (really!)

Comedy

OK, I'll leave the details of the situation out, they don't have any impact on this issue:

I've been out of work for a while and am about to go back. With the job market as it is and my very niche work skills it's been very hard to find a job. Well now I've found one but it really doesn't pay well compared to what I'd normally earn, in addition the job is nowhere near where I live so I'll have to do a lot of commuting each day (at great cost!).

Anyway, the job was initially going to be on a contract so I would be registered self employed and could deduct these travel costs from my taxable income. That's no longer the case. The employer will only take me on as a full employee on the same money, this works great for private medical and pension but i will now have all those pre planned expenses included in my taxable income for the CSA.

I called them up to tell them I'm planning to to back to work, told them my annual wage and they told me how much I'd be paying per week.. £96. This is a problem though as with my current outgoings (rent, insurance, etc) and the now massive cost of commuting to work I will only have £100 free each week before paying them.

I told them this and that if they enforced it they would be making it impossible for me to live but obviously it went nowhere. Does anyone know if there's any way I can have these expenses taken into account?

I'm definitely going to take the job as I need to get back into the industry, it would just be nice if I could do it without making a loss.. I've not claimed any benefits while being out of work but I would be financially better if I turned the job down and signed on. This is my first dealing with the CSA and the agency seems to be completely irrational!

speedster

sounds like it's either SE or not take it at all.

the csa don't give a stuff if you're working at a loss and they wont budge. end of.

they're like a spoilt child who will quite happily cut off their nose to spite their face and dig their heels in, even if it means the NRP has to sign on and then the ex will only end up with a fiver.

is a private agreement with the ex out of the question? perhaps swallowing the bitter pill of talking to the ex and sorting something out could be worth a shot?

without any background, it's hard to help.

Comedy

Unfortunately a private agreement is competely out of the question. Here's a bit of background as it will help you understand the situation in full..

The ex was never a partner of mine. We met while i was working (in quite a good job) abroad and had a casual encounter a few times. The woman has legit mental health issues that cause her to act like this.. I know this must be heard a lot too but it's true. Anyway, she told me she was on birth control (she wasn't), we had unprotected sex (once - it's all it takes!), she called me later from her home country to tell me she was pregnant and wanted to keep it.

Since then she's not let me see him and told me i only can with a court order, not responded to any of my attempts of contact other than three meetings a few weeks after he was born where I could see him.. it's been 4 months since I last saw him. The only thing I heard from her was her asking for my address to inform the CSA, which I gave her.

I'm really not a cynical person but it's got to the point where I think she saw me as a successful, single person and intended to get pregnant just because she isn't in a relationship but wants a child and wants to be financially sound. Because of this I think she will do anything she can to stop me from being a part of their life in any way other than financially. It's really taken a long time for me to accept this but I can't see any other rationale behind her actions.

I've had some legal advice on the subject now and I've also read through the Child Support Act myself (terrible but informative read) and I believe I have a valid case to object to the costs..

The Child Support Act states that any decision must take into account the welfare of any child such a decision affects. Now, i have a daughter who stays with me regularly (me and the mother aren't together but are on great terms). We have an agreement outside the CSA and I see them both all the time. If we look at the situation the CSA will be putting me in I'll either have to a: move to London to work, or b: not accept the job and sign on.

If I were to take option a this will reduce the amount of days I see my daughter from 7 a week to 2 and the amount of nights she spends with me from 2/3 to a definite zero.. although I'll stlil be able to pay our private agreement this will definitely have an effect on our relationship and therefore her welfare.

Now if we take option b although I will still see her, I will no longer be able to pay her mother the money I've prearranged, I'll have to sign on and I'll become a burden on the state (the latter two points mean nothing to the CSA but the first can also be counted as affecting her welfare).

The only valid option is c which is for me to accept the job for the benefit of everyone (my children and myself) but for the circumstances to be taken into account that I need to be around for my children, can't move away and therefore lose a lot of my income in the cost of getting to and from work.

What do you think about the argument?.. I'd be willing to take it through the courts myself to have it heard, it's not a dispute against the mother so we won't have to deal in the courts (I don't want that one bit) and also if I do this before I start work I'll get legal aid.

Caz3121

not an expert on this but a few questions/comments
Is the ex in the UK
Are you 100% sure the child is yours (given that this was brief encounter do you know for sure there were not others)

CSA will look at 15% of your net...full stop they will not even account for the money that goes out on the private arrangement
however if there are children with other parties then the total for your 2 children would be 20% with 10% to each mother (and reduced for the child that stays with you regularly)
How would this compare with your private arrangement

Comedy

Yeah, I'm told that the CSA will not take into account a private arrangement although for purposes of other benefits I had to write a letter to the CSA once the private arrangement was made to state it was in fact true, it seems like they chop and chose which of their guidelines to follow at any one given point..

Private arrangements are not taken into account for benefits whereby the CSA act as a broker but they *are* taken into account for calculating anything they pay. This is the reason I had to write the letter.

The welfare of the child is the number one priority of the agency unless that child is arranged privately and therefore will not be recorded as a CSA statistic.

The first example I think shows the CSA are more interested in their bottom line than the well being of the parties they 'support'. The second, I think illustrates that they will overlook their primary motive in order to meet whatever government targets they're set.


I'm not a lawyer and I am starting to lose the little faith I had in this government but I still believe that if I put a case together, did it well and presented it to a court I could come out of this with a sensible arrangement. Maybe I'm naive still but I want to have my try rather than just give in and become bitter... if that happens after, at least there'd be good reason!

kingfisherblue

I would echo Caz's point about the possibility of the child being yours - I know it only takes one time, but if the mother is very casual about sex, there may well have been several short encounters with a number of men. I would definitely ask for a DNA test. I would also get checked out for any possible STI, as they do not always have visible symptoms for a number of years.

Does your private arrangement for your daughter mean that you pay more or less money to her mother? The reason I ask is that if you transferred over to the '20% for two children, to be split between the two mothers' scenario, would your daughter's mother be worse off? If she is, could you 'top up' an additional amount as a private arrangement? I don't know how feasible this is.

I think you need to play around with some figures and work out the best situation for your circumstances. Surely signing on can't be a possibility?

Kimitatsu

Hi Comedy

A few questions for you:

You say the PWC rang you from her home country - is the child habitually resident in the UK? If not does she come under a REMO agreement?

Have you applied for a variation to the decision on the grounds of the number of miles that you travel a week? You can do this if you have to travel more than (I think) 150 miles a week to get to and from your place of work.

lastly, I realise that you have a private arrangement, but why dont you get your daughters PWC to apply to the CSA as well? That way the amount you have to pay will rise to 20% of your net income but will be divided between both children, if you wish to top it up to your daughter then that is your perogative, but that would mean she is in receipt of some money and you can still see your daughter whilst taking the job. It means that you have to explain all this to daughters PWC but if you have a good relationship, I am sure she will see it is better to take a slightly reduced amount of money than £2.50 a week which is all she would be entitled to if you signed on.

HTH

speedster

you're barking up the wrong tree i'm afraid.

the relevant other children arguement is a non starter. this is the favourite law for them to ignore.

you would never get near a court with it, that's been tried loads. the angle being looked at recently is the UN convention of child rights, but it's a long way off getting near a court house yet.

as others have said, if she is not habitually resident in the UK then she has no claim with the csa, so remo wont even come into it.

speedster

also, if you are on good terms with ex no.1 then get her to file a claim with the csa, she'll get the lions share of the money leaving the gold digger with 1/3 share of 25% or your wage instead of 15%.

you and ex no.1 can then come to an agreement between yourselves.

Soubrette

I would ask for a DNA test (while putting as much aside for payments as I could afford).

If she genuinely has mental health issues then it may be that you were not the only casual relationship she was in to try and get pregnant.

I also think that discussing the situation with PWC1 is an exellent idea.

As to your legal argument - is it worth paying for a half hours advice from a child support specialist to see if it would be worth taking it forward? I know some solicitors offer a free half hour but I don't think most specialist do.

Sou

speedster

Soubrette wrote: »

As to your legal argument - is it worth paying for a half hours advice from a child support specialist to see if it would be worth taking it forward? I know some solicitors offer a free half hour but I don't think most specialist do.

Sou

no is the simple answre to that one.

the points that the OP has made have all been tried and failed. the csa have the legslation all tied up and you cant even take it to ECHR as good ol' blair took care of that angle.

the HRA means nothing to them, so you'd be chasing a dead end.

the UN angle is best bet, but you wont find a solicitor willing to take it on, and if you did, the case would cost hundreds of thousands as legal aid is not available to fight it.