If milk had risen in line with house prices...

CLAPTON

carolt wrote: »

If the same opportunity is given to those buying to live in a property, no crime.

Otherwise, clearly a very un-level playing field.

Surely the person buying 1 house is as much an 'investor' as those buying loads.

Bring back MIRAS and I'll agree with you.

would you also be willing to pay capital gains tax when you sold your property...just so there was a level playing field?

ukcarper

Really2 wrote: »

Anyone who currently lives in a council house is still an ordinary persons as far as I know.

You only got Council housing in the 70's 80's if you were unemployed or in desperate need or could not afford to support your family.

As far as I know that as never changed, but also the people have never been anything other than "ordinary" people.

I don't know about the 80s but I'm not sure it was quite that bad in the 70s a couple of my friends got council houses and they were not unemployed or not able to support their family I suppose desperate need is subjective.

I would imagine that a lot of people living on council now estates are ordinary people who are working hard I know a few people who are.

Really2

ukcarper wrote: »

I don't know about the 80s but I'm not sure it was quite that bad in the 70s a couple of my friends got council houses and they were not unemployed or not able to support their family I suppose desperate need is subjective.

I would imagine that a lot of people living on council now estates are ordinary people who are working hard I know a few people who are.

We had a council house in the 80's when my fathers company failed through the manufacturing collapse then. Before that (not as I remember) we would have been a resonably well off family.
Not sure how we were no longer "ordinary" but we would have never of got one before.
Most views on council house tenants are just based on playgroung name calling.

to all intents and purposes HA is now council/social housing as most councils have sold there stock to them.
I think most peoples view on council/HA housing changes when they need it.

carolt

CLAPTON wrote: »

would you also be willing to pay capital gains tax when you sold your property...just so there was a level playing field?

In one word - yes.

I think property taxes as they have in most other countries would be an excellent idea and I'm all in favour.

Really2

carolt wrote: »

In one word - yes.

I think property taxes as they have in most other countries would be an excellent idea and I'm all in favour.

We have now, it is called inheritance tax.
What property sale taxes do they have and where on the single place of living? I must admit I did not know some countries do this so what countries charge what, when you sell a house?

gmang

The problem is not just that people should have the right to "invest" in property with tax breaks. There is a fundamental problem with the understanding of housing finance.

Look at house prices adjusted for inflation, eg:

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/historical.htm

The number of times I see this graph with a "trend" shown as exponential growth sickens me. The price of houses CANNOT grow exponentially after RPI is taken into account. It will correct itself eventually, I'm just amazed at how many FTBs are still willing to pay £150k for a 2-bed terrace house in areas where the average wage is only £20k.

YES - stopping mortgage relief for BTL would seem harsh because it is a business expense, but one persons business expense is costing a lot more people the opportunity to buy a house to live in.

CLAPTON

gmang wrote: »

The problem is not just that people should have the right to "invest" in property with tax breaks. There is a fundamental problem with the understanding of housing finance.

Look at house prices adjusted for inflation, eg:

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/historical.htm

The number of times I see this graph with a "trend" shown as exponential growth sickens me. The price of houses CANNOT grow exponentially after RPI is taken into account. It will correct itself eventually, I'm just amazed at how many FTBs are still willing to pay £150k for a 2-bed terrace house in areas where the average wage is only £20k.

YES - stopping mortgage relief for BTL would seem harsh because it is a business expense, but one persons business expense is costing a lot more people the opportunity to buy a house to live in.

blt is the marketing name for a type of mortgage

are you saying that LAs, housing trusts, large commecial property owners and small one or two houses landlords should all lose the ability ot have interest as a busines expense?

CLAPTON

carolt wrote: »

In one word - yes.

I think property taxes as they have in most other countries would be an excellent idea and I'm all in favour.

we have property taxed on purchase now 1% up to 125k, 2% up to 250k etc

re-introdcuing MIRAS would make houses at any given price more affordable
unless the supply changes of course then house prices will rise to meet the increased demand make by the increased affordability

so buyers are no better off, down sizers are better off, deceases estates are better off, tax payers have to pay more tax to fund these winners

gmang

CLAPTON wrote: »

blt is the marketing name for a type of mortgage

are you saying that LAs, housing trusts, large commecial property owners and small one or two houses landlords should all lose the ability ot have interest as a busines expense?

Actually, BLT is a type of sandwich!

Ok, in practise perhaps it would be easier to reinstate MIRAS to level out the playing field that way rather than take away relief for landlords. Either way, one group being able to get a massive tax break that others can't is not fair.