RBS Loses 5, er 3.6, Billion in 2009

worldtraveller

RBS is a failed company and if the taxpayer really thinks that they will get their "investment" back, they are sorely wrong IMHO.

The top investment bankers have largely already fled RBS for better paid positions elsewhere in the "real world," global economy. This has been largely due to political pressure under Nu Labour and their re-election seeking spin doctors, who want to secure the anti w****r banker vote.

We will, no doubt, be left with yet another floundering nationalised company.

kabayiri

We got a bad deal with all the banks the state bailed out.

I didn't see many other buyers queueing up for these bumper deals.

We should have had 100% stake for the money provided, and an agreement of no bonus until the company was in profit. These people are lucky to have a job.

Mr.Smith_6

Mr.Brown wrote: »

So maybe 1 billion a year profit for five years to cover 2009 losses. And then start paying the taxpayer back. Could be a long haul I guess.

What do you mean paying the tax payer back ?
How much do they owe me?
I have just had to copper up for a jar of coffee.

Generali

In related news, RBS demerged ABN Amro and handed it to the Dutch Government:

http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.aspx?id=201002080700048065G

If I'm reading this right, RBS have kept the debt but lost the assets (although they will also have lost all those liabilities they have to savers too). They've hand ABN Amro over with about 12% in reserve so it looks on the face of it like they've handed over a business in pretty good shape.

Can anyone shed light on this? It passed me by at the time.

vaporate

It annoys the schit out of me when I hear bank bonuses though. What for? Failure?

Maybe I should go round sending small companies down the road to financial ruin, then demand a bonus for my 'work'.

Toffs

Charterhouse

Generali wrote: »

In related news, RBS demerged ABN Amro and handed it to the Dutch Government:

http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.aspx?id=201002080700048065G

If I'm reading this right, RBS have kept the debt but lost the assets (although they will also have lost all those liabilities they have to savers too). They've hand ABN Amro over with about 12% in reserve so it looks on the face of it like they've handed over a business in pretty good shape.

Can anyone shed light on this? It passed me by at the time.

RBS have most of the assets, some of the liabilities (I can't tell you off hand but that looks like a long way short of all the debt issued by ABN AMRO) and all of the staff. I don't think the intention of this largely legal maneouvre is as evil as you think, but I could be wrong. I think this is due to certain elements of ABN basically being bailed out due to domicile, and now being stripped out from the new RBS that wants to move forward.

wymondham

I'm curious, how can it pay those bonuses when it made a loss?? I may be missing something obvious, but surely you pay your debts before your bonuses??

Generali

wymondham wrote: »

I'm curious, how can it pay those bonuses when it made a loss?? I may be missing something obvious, but surely you pay your debts before your bonuses??

Many of the staff will have contracts that say they get paid xx per year plus y% of the profit they or their desk has generated. Others will be on discretionary bonuses but will be deemed key staff in the business - do you want half your IT people to walk out for example?

Just because a business is failing doesn't make every employee and manager a failure.

You need to understand that in most banks for many staff the bonus is another part of the pay structure. They accept a lower level of pay in return for the chance of a bonus at the end of the year. It's the same in lots of other businesses: salesmen get commission, pub and shop managers get some performance related pay, even when I worked as a Saturday boy selling washing machines, perhaps half of my pay was commission.

sabretoothtigger

The pay of the staff is a working expense and the debts are ongoing liabilities not yet due. I think the general idea is those bonuses are industry standard and since rbs is a commodity speculator and other things, large hedge fund like bonuses are normal and nessecery to continue the business.

They did sell some of the wilder parts recently though, the general plan I think is to put the reins on without losing a wheel

In related news, RBS demerged ABN Amro and handed it to the Dutch Government:

Not that Ive heard of. Ambro was always going to be split up, maybe its become more aggressive / accelerated

What? I don't get this. People in here were telling me these state majority purchases of banks were actually a good deal, and this would only cost us 10 billion or so.

I want my £2.50 back.

Its more like a grand each I think




RBS kept hold of some the premium goods then

EUR100m
5.125%
Flip flop Bermudan callable subordinated notes 2017(callable December 2012)
XS0159771327

Generali

(c) Generali's Translation Service

EUR100m
5.125%
Flip flop Bermudan callable subordinated notes 2017(callable December 2012)
XS0159771327

Isn't that debt that RBS has issued? Flip flop means the investor can chose a fixed or floating rate of interest each time the coupon (interest payment) comes due. Bermudan callable means RBS can choose to repay in full on set dates (usually when a coupon is paid). Subordinated means it gets paid out after senior debt but before shareholders get a look in.

It isn't a dodgy loan to a rubber footwear company! (although it does have a pretty funny name)