Taking a wrongful dismissal case to tribunal

aj2703

Anihilator wrote: »

They have a system that logged the call ; the action taken and what should have been done. They have a system that shows this didnt happen.

I would suggest for an ET that counts as evidence that calls were not being trasnferred that shouldnt have and that it will be for the OP to prove there was genuine reasons for this.

For example if calls were lost because people hung up he should have recorded this.

How could he record it if he passed the call on..? Dunno how it works but i would have thought once it's passed to another line his line is immediately free to receive more calls

Anihilator

EllieA wrote: »

How would we go about proving it? As people have pointed out we can say till we are blue in the face that he didn’t do it, but we can’t prove it.

I mean if we could access their systems perhaps we could prove that 10 calls dropping out in 12 months wasn’t unusual, but something tells me they aren’t going to willingly hand over that sort of data. Surely the tribunal would ask if it was an unusual occurrence?

Asking other employee’s is a bit pointless because as a whole the staff have no idea of those sorts of figures it only gets bought up when they do these sorts of dismissals also no-one wants to put their own jobs at risk.

If you get statements from a lot of staff, an expert on the software or something similar which casts aspersions on the accuracy of the conclusions (i.e that it often has calls lost for genuine reasons that dont show up) then that would help.

There is also the DPA to use and if the company want to rely on evidence then they need to give access.

I personally would be asking for a statement from a fair few colleagues in both departments to state the calls can be lost for genuine reasons that arent logged as well as asking the same question to the management.

If they back up your OH's stance then they would be stupid to pursue it.

Personally I would have ensured whilst I was employed though that every call lost was recorded and the reason why on the software. The company surely must have a client memo type system in place to record notes of calls.

rupee99

OP again these are uninformed opinions based upon people's own perceptions.

No-one here, probably including yourself, knows the full circumstances or was at the disciplinary hearing where that was the fundemental part of the procedure that led to the decision to dismiss your husband.

The burden of proof will be on your husband's former employer to show that the evidence meets the tests referred to above and that in the circumstances it was reasonable for them to have taken the action they did. You will have to show that it was not, or at least they did not have proper procedures in place to ascertain sufficient facts on the circumstances of the situation.

Whatever anyone says on here is just speculation, they do not know i) whether your husband did end 10 calls, ii) if he did whether that is reasonable and iii) whether that relates to the "charge" of gross misconduct which the letter states he was dismissed for.

Continued argument and gainsaying serves absolutely no purpose other than to give the "oxygen of publicity" to uninformed and possibly prejudiced persons. You have a lawyer, rely on them.

Anihilator

aj2703 wrote: »

I would have thought it would be upto them to prove it as they have made the accusation and fired him, i maybe wrong though. What does your solicitor say.?.

They dont have to prove anything.
All that they have to prove is that an investigation was fair and on the findings that they had reasonable suspision to state the OP was guilty based on the facts that came out.

I.e software showing calls were logged but not transferred when they should have and no reasons behind this being shown would be reasonable suspision unless the OP can show that it was normal for this to happen.

The OP imo has to either prove their systems and hence evidence is inherently flawed or get a good group of colleagues to support him.

lufcgirl

Does this system tell them wether they were hung up on or a call failed to be transferred to another department as the person was meant to be doing? Does it show the specific screen shots in where the advisor hung up on the customer? Or is it a case of 'this call ended during a transfer and nobody reported to us as to why'. Myself, I wouldn't see that as a fraudulent matter or one that would justify a sacking.

I don't see any reason as to why someone would rather cut a customer off than transfer to another department. It could be a ten second routing issue whereby their system cut people off. It wasn't like a whole day of calls terminating, it was a very small percentage of calls.

WeakHeart

Agree with Rupee99. This case is more complex and it's not possible to pass judgements based on the information that the OP has given.

OP, your husband would ideally have been shown their 'evidence' at dismissal stage (and/or appeal - did he appeal?). If not then this will have to be disclosed by the ex employers as the case progresses.

dickydonkin

How would we go about proving it? As people have pointed out we can say till we are blue in the face that he didn’t do it, but we can’t prove it. I mean if we could access their systems perhaps we could prove that 10 calls dropping out in 12 months wasn’t unusual, but something tells me they aren’t going to willingly hand over that sort of data.

Good news Ellie that the process is in motion, however, as a previous poster mentioned, it can be a protracted procedure. Mrs.P recently took her former employer to tribunal , however the timescale from submitting the claim to the tribunal hearing was a reasonable 4 months, but it can take longer. Her situation was remedied prior to the hearing BTW.

Further into the process, you should obtain further information when evidence from both parties are exchanged. ACAS will also attempt to resolve the situation and bear in mind, a large percentage of claims submitted to tribunals are resolved before the hearing date.

Hopefully this will be the case with you, but as well as attempting financial compensation, your solicitor will hopefully ensure that your OH's reputation is intact after this awful experience.

EllieA_3

I didn't really expect people to be ableto give me an idea of the outcome, as i realise many are the detail's are vague. They are vague for me as i wasn't at any of the hearings or meetings and my only knowledge comes from the transcripts and my husband.

Really what i was looking for was an idea of how long these things take, as im concerned for my husbands well being and i just want it over with so he can move on.

Also any idea's of things we can do to gain evidence, it's a difficult situation as these systems are locked down, honestly 10 cases our of thousands my husband can't honestly remeber the calls never mind what happen on a case by case basis.

He's got a few colleagues and a couple of managers willing to speak on his behalf as character witness's but as no-one seems to know the figures for how often these things occure we haven't got those. we've also got someone willing to say that the manager who bought about the aligation had something against my husband (clash of personalitys, we think this all came about when she was not invited on a team night out my husband organised, she has since gone off work on the sick (since we started proceedings))

The solicitor seems to think the bank have no evidence whatsoever about how these calls got lost and that all the documentation suggests he was fired on the "hunch" of this manager.

WeakHeart

EllieA it's hard to give a timescale. I know of cases that have taken over a year to be heard but as dpassmore says it can be faster.

I would advise you to take things one step at a time so that it doesn't seem overwhelming. Your solicitor should be able to guide you about what actions you should take with witnesses, evidence as defence etc and when to do this.

You may find it useful to find out more information about how tribunals are managed. I've mentioned a good book that seems to be widely used in a previous post. You can also attend a tribunal yourself so that you can see what happens in practice.

I also hope that your case is favourably be settled before a hearing but it may help you to understand the full process should it go that far.

melou

I seem to remember that at the moment it can take 5 months to get a date but I can't back that up with a weblink unfortunately. I think it takes as long as it takes, especially if the other party decides to ask for deferments etc.

For more info on how a tribunal works check here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/Employmenttribunals/DG_173242

I would also strongly recommend having a read through the ACAS website, particularly the sections relating to conciliation. Part of ACAS role is to try and reach an agreement (not necessarily financial) between the two parties through a formal conciliation process. Once your ET1 is acknowledged by the ET service then they will notify ACAS who will contact you directly. It is a voluntary process but participating in it is in both parties interests IMO.

Also, consider what you actually want out of this process. Money, as you said, is nice but it won't solve the crux of your husband's problem that his confidence is in pieces and his reputation compromised. I would suggest that a solution which brought about a quick resolution and a glowing reference (working on the assumption that your husband is 100% in the right) would be more beneficial to him than whatever the tribunal would award. However, you need to make the decision based on the circumstances at the time of any such offer. Good luck.