Guarantor on an flm loan what happens if i go to court?

T7YVB1

RobertoMoir I certainly wasnt trying to trivialise going to court, probably bad phrasing on part. It actually scares the crap out of me i was just trying to have a worst case scenario in my head and was trying to convince myself that it wasn’t the end of the world should this happen. A pathetic attempt to make myself feel better I suppose. Then they took it further and mentioned that they would go after my house.

I have asked for a signed credit agreement and any terms and conditions to be posted to my house and emphasised again to a more sympathetic person that I would be willing to make affordable contributions which they tell me “would look favourable to their legal team”.

They are also pressuring me to update my card details as my old card expired. I am sooooo reluctant to do this however as I could not get any assurances that they wouldn’t try to take out the full amount out every month. (My bank just authorise any amounts going out of my account regardless of what is in there…..) hence I would have hefty bank charges every month and sink further and further into debt which I see as no solution whatsoever. Again they tell me that it is in my terms and conditions that I have to have an up to date card on file. So again I hit a brick wall on that one…. Going to talk to the bank and see if they can stop any payments that I cannot afford from coming out of my a/c but I am sure I have asked this in the past and they said there was nothing they could do they do as they authorise it out of faith that I can cover the amount…. Basically I am a trusted a/c holder.

Update on “my friend” I have been told he rang them to tell them he had lost his job because of mental illness and he had been in a mental institution for the past month…. Also he couldn’t afford this payment at the end of the month and wouldn’t be able to make full payments from here on in…… Don’t think I have ever heard such rubbish!!!!!! So looks like I really am in the s**t

Also Thankyou to Pippitypip for all your advice I am taking it all on board xx

pippitypip_2

staciemccord wrote: »

I have asked for a signed credit agreement and any terms and conditions to be posted to my house and emphasised again to a more sympathetic person that I would be willing to make affordable contributions which they tell me “would look favourable to their legal team”.

:j This is very good news - keep that person's name handy and try to always deal with the same person. Follow up everything discussed in writing to confirm - in fact always request it in writing from them if they agree to something.

I'm not suprised. I've been in debt for a long time, and once the companies realise you really can't pay in full (you're not just saying it to avoid paying) , they just want you to pay something regularly. The pressure and harassment usually eases off then and they just want to be kept up to date and for you to pay back as much as possible. Understandable really - it's their money they're legitimately trying to claw back.

staciemccord wrote: »

They are also pressuring me to update my card details as my old card expired. I am sooooo reluctant to do this however as I could not get any assurances that they wouldn’t try to take out the full amount out every month. (My bank just authorise any amounts going out of my account regardless of what is in there…..) hence I would have hefty bank charges every month and sink further and further into debt which I see as no solution whatsoever. Again they tell me that it is in my terms and conditions that I have to have an up to date card on file. So again I hit a brick wall on that one…. Going to talk to the bank and see if they can stop any payments that I cannot afford from coming out of my a/c but I am sure I have asked this in the past and they said there was nothing they could do they do as they authorise it out of faith that I can cover the amount…. Basically I am a trusted a/c holder.

You've already broken their terms and conditions (the ones you signed up to by signing your name as guarantor), because you're not making the full payments on behalf of your friend when they defaulted.

In that respect, anything at all that FLM agree to now is a goodwill gesture.

I too would be wary if they won't confirm they will not take full payments from the card. However, they do have my card details on file, with my permission to take a set agreed amount on a set agreed date every month. They do not have my permission to take more than has been agreed.

I would suggest that you iron out what payment offer they will accept and get them to confirm that in writing. You can then write back (KEEP COPIES OF EVERYTHING YOU SEND TOO), confirming your card details and that you give your permission for them to only take £x amount per month.

It is illegal for them to take more than agreed - they can't**. They are regulated by the FSA and have to abide by all the usual rules; if they don't you can report them.

**this doesn't always fly, for example if you had a Barclaycard debt and a Barclays current account. They are linked by the same company who reserve the right (in the Ts and Cs of your current account), to take what they want to cover any debts. Not applicable in these particular circumstances though.

hth,
pippitypip

RobertoMoir

staciemccord wrote: »

RobertoMoir I certainly wasnt trying to trivialise going to court, probably bad phrasing on part.

Actually I think it's bad phrasing on my part. I was trying to make it clear that *I* wasn't trivialising going to court. I can see from your posts that you're certainly taking the whole thing seriously.

Sorry for any confusion.

It actually scares the crap out of me i was just trying to have a worst case scenario in my head and was trying to convince myself that it wasn’t the end of the world should this happen. A pathetic attempt to make myself feel better I suppose. Then they took it further and mentioned that they would go after my house.

I have asked for a signed credit agreement and any terms and conditions to be posted to my house and emphasised again to a more sympathetic person that I would be willing to make affordable contributions which they tell me “would look favourable to their legal team”.

They are also pressuring me to update my card details as my old card expired. I am sooooo reluctant to do this however as I could not get any assurances that they wouldn’t try to take out the full amount out every month. (My bank just authorise any amounts going out of my account regardless of what is in there…..) hence I would have hefty bank charges every month and sink further and further into debt which I see as no solution whatsoever. Again they tell me that it is in my terms and conditions that I have to have an up to date card on file. So again I hit a brick wall on that one…. Going to talk to the bank and see if they can stop any payments that I cannot afford from coming out of my a/c but I am sure I have asked this in the past and they said there was nothing they could do they do as they authorise it out of faith that I can cover the amount…. Basically I am a trusted a/c holder.

Update on “my friend” I have been told he rang them to tell them he had lost his job because of mental illness and he had been in a mental institution for the past month…. Also he couldn’t afford this payment at the end of the month and wouldn’t be able to make full payments from here on in…… Don’t think I have ever heard such rubbish!!!!!! So looks like I really am in the s**t

Also Thankyou to Pippitypip for all your advice I am taking it all on board xx

Can I suggest you only deal with them via post, or at the very least, email. Don't let them get you on the phone as this is the favourite way that companies like this bully people into making payments they can't afford, and of course there's no record of what was said on the phone was there?

And absolutely keep control of the payments - don't let them get into a position where they can take what they want from your account.

As for the friend - well I'd regard him paying it as questionable right now. I appreciate what you say about not being able to afford the court fees to do this, but I do think that is the only way you'll recover the money yourself at this point. Sorry, but we have got to be realistic on this one. Do you have insurance or union membership or something like that which might have come with legal cover to help with this?

T7YVB1

No i dont have any relevant insurance to cover legal, i was told that i could take him to small claims court after the loan is settled.

So RobertoMoir would you refuse to give them your card details? Although if i do make a contribution to this months payment then surely they would just keep them on file?

Should i get them to agree to an amount for this month and assurances that they wont take any other amount without my consent ever in writing before i hand over anything whatsoever? Just it is getting passed along to the legal team come friday if i havnt paid anything

pippitypip_2

staciemccord wrote: »

No i dont have any relevant insurance to cover legal, i was told that i could take him to small claims court after the loan is settled.

So RobertoMoir would you refuse to give them your card details? Although if i do make a contribution to this months payment then surely they would just keep them on file?

Should i get them to agree to an amount for this month and assurances that they wont take any other amount without my consent ever in writing before i hand over anything whatsoever? Just it is getting passed along to the legal team come friday if i havnt paid anything

No harm in it getting passed to their legal team, they are Harvey Sturt and they are in-house chasers, still part of FLM, and more used to dealing with people in your situation.

They aren't allowed to keep your card details on record without your express permission - if you stress this is a one time payment and get them to confirm it should be fine. They're not known for being cheating liars and taking payments without permission.

Again though, it may be best to pay nothing, get them to agree a payment offer in writing and then confirm you're giving them your card details with permission to ONLY take that agreed amount, once, on an agreed date per month. Up to you.

If you do make a payment now, it needs to be agreed that it is to cover this month's payment and that that is what you can afford to pay monthly. i.e. they don't ask you for more next week.

pippitypip

RobertoMoir

staciemccord wrote: »

No i dont have any relevant insurance to cover legal, i was told that i could take him to small claims court after the loan is settled.

So RobertoMoir would you refuse to give them your card details? Although if i do make a contribution to this months payment then surely they would just keep them on file?

Should i get them to agree to an amount for this month and assurances that they wont take any other amount without my consent ever in writing before i hand over anything whatsoever? Just it is getting passed along to the legal team come friday if i havnt paid anything

Sounds like pippitypip's got more experience of this lot than I have so I'd listen to their suggestions to be honest. You can make a one-off payment and if pippitypip has experience that this works ok then why not.

I think it will still end up going through their recovery process - this doesn't mean they're going to take your house, but at the end of the day they do want their money and they have to follow a certain process to make sure they get it. Please don't get overly frightened of terms like "legal team" which are just part of the dance any lender does - just pay close attention to what they are saying. I bet any threat to take your house actually contained a lot of words like "May" and "might" and "possible/possibly" and so-on.

pippitypip_2

I don't want to make it sound like they definitely won't take you to court, every situation is different. However in my experience, in general most companies (including my personal experience with FLM), won't pursue you through the courts if they're accepting a reasonable monthly payment from you, if you're experiencing financial difficulties.

I've found with all my creditors (even the so-called nasties that are serial harassers), if you keep in contact with them, keep them up to date with your situation, keep paying the (lower) agreed monthly payments = NOT avoiding them - and this keeps them happy.

The only missing info which could have any bearing on this advice is the terms of your being guarantor in this instance, rather than the original debtor. But I honestly believe you simply take the debtor's place in the agreement and that they would treat you the same as they do me.

Do let me know if you have any further questions, I'm happy to help. I had so much help from MSE myself (as a lurker and a poster), it's only fair I give back

pippitypip

MyopicMoo

Hi Stacie, what a horrible situation. As this is not a priority debt you do not have to pay them before anything else. Their threats are their way of bullying you into agreeing to pay more than you can afford - don't let them do it. Suggesting that you pay more than you can afford, or telling you to borrow of family or friends is a breach of the OFT debt collection guidelines. Keep all correspondence in writing - their threats are less likely to be so bad in writing, and if they are you have evidence of it.

I would set up a standing order for the amount you can afford (not a DD and definitely don't give your card details). Pay that each month and then IF they take you to court you can show that you are making regular payments of the amount you can manage. I would have thought, with a relatively low amount of the loan, a judge would be happy for you to pay what you can manage and only look to putting a charge on your property if you fail to keep the arrangement. The direct gov site has a whole section on court and CCJs and instructions on which forms to complete.

Best of luck.

T7YVB1

Right....... got paid today (which they were aware of) and checked my bank balance to sort out my budget and work out what i could afford to pay them and they have taken the full £155 out of my account!!!!!

I am fuming....... they do not even have an updated card for me, the one they have is expired, they have somehow updated it themselves. Is this not illegal?

Surely they can not do this as i have not authorised payment and being in contact with them they are aware that i cannot afford to pay the full amount.

Worked out my money and it leaves me with a grand total of £1.54 for the month. What the hell am i supposed to eat????? let alone petrol to go to work! If i cant get to work how do they expect me to make any future payment..... or if i die of starvation then they are definately not going to get anything then!!

pippitypip_2

T7YVB1 wrote: »

Right....... got paid today (which they were aware of) and checked my bank balance to sort out my budget and work out what i could afford to pay them and they have taken the full £155 out of my account!!!!!

I am fuming....... they do not even have an updated card for me, the one they have is expired, they have somehow updated it themselves. Is this not illegal?

Surely they can not do this as i have not authorised payment and being in contact with them they are aware that i cannot afford to pay the full amount.

Worked out my money and it leaves me with a grand total of £1.54 for the month. What the hell am i supposed to eat????? let alone petrol to go to work! If i cant get to work how do they expect me to make any future payment..... or if i die of starvation then they are definately not going to get anything then!!

Call them ASAP, and state you will be informing your bank of a fraudulent transaction, considering you have confirmed to them on more than one occasion that they do not have your permission to use the card to take that payment as you are expereincing financial difficulties.

Don't be rude about it, but tell them that you can't even afford to get to to work now that they have done that - meaning you'll likely lose your job and they won't be getting anything from you if that happens.

Indeed you will need to call your bank and see what they can do, I don't know if FLM have the facility to refund you.

What agreements did you have in place with FLM before this? Did they agree to a payment plan in the end?

They can use your expired card if the bank let it through I'm afraid.. it's not illegal.

Sorry, I'm rushing - swamped at work, but call FLM and beg, then try your bank and let us know what the outcome is.

pippitypip