Tory lead slipping away, Heseltine predicts hung parliament...

JasonLVC

lostinrates wrote: »

Is it just me who is often disappointed by the small-ness of the ''big'' changes people propose? Change to me sounds like some thing different, a new game....not like.....making a move on a Rubik's cube..............

But people fear change lostinrates.

The classic example is Thatcher's much hated Poll Tax - it was a radically different way citizens paid for their local services (one based not on the value of a house but on the numbers of people inside it) and more or less destroyed her tenure at the top.

People like subtle changes, hence we see more things 'creep' into being such as hospital car parking charges being introduced then going up, rail fares creeping up, CCTV cameras, pounds to kilos, stealth taxes. Much easier to get away with than a sudden blunt trauma to the back of your head, which is what "change" is to most.

StevieJ

tartanterra wrote: »

The prospect of a hung parliament is truly frightening.:eek:

Hard and painful decisions need to be made after the next general election, to try and drag this country out of the c**p.:(

A hung parliament just means lots of compromise, with any major decision being watered down to appease coalition parties and get them "onside".
The problem with compromise, is that NO ONE actually gets what they want.:(

Personally, I have very little time for any of the major parties, but a hung parliament is never going to get this country moving forward again.
It's a recipe for disaster.:(

Then again it could bring Vince Cable into the management team, remind me again who is would make a popular choice for chancellor with the public, who also warned of the dangers of the credit bubble? His ideas don't seem a milliion miles away from the Tory proposals just more humane

http://www.epolitix.com/latestnews/article-detail/newsarticle/vince-cable-speech-on-economic-policy/

The_White_Horse

we need austerity. only a fool would think otherwise.

you can see why the foolish public want the spending to stay - especially the benefit brigade and public sector - however, the public are fools.

vote for us, we will keep spending and giving you stuff

vote for us, we will make painful cuts

who are you going to vote for???? the tories only choice is (a) hope the public are intelligent enough to realise massive cuts are not only desirable but needed or (b) lie to them.

They should go for (b). The public in general are too dumb to realise.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

The_White_Horse wrote: »

we need austerity. only a fool would think otherwise.

.

Only a fool would think austerity can solve our problems.

The structural deficit, of around £180 bn per year, is greater than the entire budget of the NHS and the Army, Navy, & Air Force combined.

The recession has cut tax receipts by £80 bn a year, and increased the amount we have to spend on benefits, JSA, etc by billions more.

Tipping us back into recession will worsen the situation, making it even harder to make the needed savings.

The ONLY sustainable way out is strong growth. Which austerity measures will not deliver.

Sir_Humphrey

I don't really understand why people are so scared of coalitions. Germany has had coalition government for most of the last ten years and they are doing okay (or as okay as can be expected in the circumstances). After all, we have had governments with large majorities for most of the last 30 years and the outcome has not been too pretty has it?

Wanting a government with a strong majority and then worrying about authoritarianism seems to be doublethink to me.

It is also the case that pushing austerity is politically foolish and economically crazy. Even in the past, pushing austerity did for Clement Attlee in the 1951 election (one of the Tories winning policies was ending rationing).

lemonjelly

lostinrates wrote: »

I shan't tell you about lib dim shenanigans locally then?

Vote on what you believe, IMO. I have no option for what I would vote this time locally, so will do the nearest I can...I think.

Oh, please do share!

lostinrates wrote: »

And the compromise that pleases few fully, takes longer to arrive at, and costs more.



Is it just me who is often disappointed by the small-ness of the ''big'' changes people propose? Change to me sounds like some thing different, a new game....not like.....making a move on a Rubik's cube..............

Nope, I agree with this, particularly when we can see that wider ranging changes are required. JasonLVC eloquently gives good reasons why. In addition, it seems reforms are always watered down. MP or party will propose this or that change, however as it goes through the green & white paper stages, & through committee, all sorts of objections will be raised by a whole variety of pressure groups - voluntary sector, private individuals, business', other parties etc. So concessions are made, policy doesn't mean what was intended anymore, which means the public don't get what they actually voted for in the first place...

lemonjelly

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

I don't really understand why people are so scared of coalitions. Germany has had coalition government for most of the last ten years and they are doing okay (or as okay as can be expected in the circumstances). After all, we have had governments with large majorities for most of the last 30 years and the outcome has not been too pretty has it?

Wanting a government with a strong majority and then worrying about authoritarianism seems to be doublethink to me.

It is also the case that pushing austerity is politically foolish and economically crazy. Even in the past, pushing austerity did for Clement Attlee in the 1951 election (one of the Tories winning policies was ending rationing).

Good points!

In addition, can I draw everyones attention to the fact that we've slipped back into the "tory" or "labour" debate.

Have we forgotten how these (as well as others) are the troughing theiving so-&-so's who've been lining their own pockets for personal gain, whilst doing little else. Do we really want to vote for people who think effectively they are a class above the populace who they represent? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8521510.stm

Politicians are supposed to be for the people, elected by the people, responsible to the people. I said at the time, a society gets the government it deserves.

If you're not happy with the economy, or your MP being a theiving cash cow, VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT. Send a proper, meaningful & sincere message to the major parties who generally treat the populace with disdain. Send them a message which can't be ignored. Independents don't go for spin, they tend to look for practical answers to problems the community actually faces.

Independent MP's, for me could be the future, or at least could significantly have a positive impact on parliamentary reform, which, I'd argue, is urgently over-required.

Look at this example. http://www.doctortaylor.info/ I know a fair few people who live & work in his constituency. None have had a bad word to say about him, & all have said that the area has been benefitted by his being the MP. & IIRC he wasn't embroiled in any of the expenses scandal.

Spartacus_Mills

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Only a fool would think austerity can solve our problems.

The structural deficit, of around £180 bn per year, is greater than the entire budget of the NHS and the Army, Navy, & Air Force combined.

The recession has cut tax receipts by £80 bn a year, and increased the amount we have to spend on benefits, JSA, etc by billions more.

Tipping us back into recession will worsen the situation, making it even harder to make the needed savings.

The ONLY sustainable way out is strong growth. Which austerity measures will not deliver.

Can we stop all this "only a fool" stuff. I know it is not just you Hamish, it is an appeal to all, I am just following up your post.

Growth in the economy and cuts are two elements of what we need to get the economy going again. Figures quoted on order-order.com showed that when the government cut in the early eighties and the early nineties the economy still grew and grew robustly as we came out of recession. We cannot keep printing money, and we need to reduce the deficit. Print money and you end up like Comrade Bob.

abaxas

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Can we stop all this "only a fool" stuff. I know it is not just you Hamish, it is an appeal to all, I am just following up your post.

Growth in the economy and cuts are two elements of what we need to get the economy going again. Figures quoted on order-order.com showed that when the government cut in the early eighties and the early nineties the economy still grew and grew robustly as we came out of recession. We cannot keep printing money, and we need to reduce the deficit. Print money and you end up like Comrade Bob.

Personally I like the term 'reboot'.

As in ditch the bit that crashed, and start again, but with most of your things intact.

Butterfly_Brain

Love the idea HANG EM ALL !