Received terms and coniditions? not CCA what is the next step

Andy_one_day

Hi

Following on from a recent request for a CCA using the template here on the forum, i have recieved what is described as, a copy of my recent terms and conditions. It is not dated in itself and the address shown is not the one for which we resided at when the original agreement would have been made many years ago.

It is not signed by myself and does not even contain a box for which anyone could sign, apart from to cancel, it is headed up as, A copy of my agreement to keep. i understand that under the CCA request they do not need to provide a signed copy?

Given i had requested a true copy, which i took to contain my signature which clearly this is not and it does not contain the address for where i resided when the original agreement would have been made many years ago. what do i do next. Print of the letter templates here and submit a CCA Query or is it better to send SAR or do i send them both???

Prior to the copy?? of the terms and conditions/ aggreement i recieved today, eariler in the week i recieved a pile of copies of statements going back a number of years, there were a number of them missing and also contained within the data, were printouts and copies of another persons satements. I guess this guy may have all my missing ones. Not too happy about that:mad:, and i dare say the other guy would not be either.

Thanks for all your help

Andy

DarkConvict

For pre April 2007, it needs to be signed to be enforceable in court. The CCA request itself only has to be a copy and doesn't need to be signed. However they must still produce a legally binding CCA as such any valid copies sent are usually signed. (from what i have seen anyway)

The next step is to send one of the letters from here, http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=26867797#post26867797

I myself CCA'ed for a friend and all we got was a leaflet with current terms and conditions, so they do seem to send nonsense. The fact you have a current address on maybe worrying, in terms of them trying to fraudulently create one. Either way, post it up on the forums with personal details covered.

Andy_one_day

Thank you for your reply

I did look through at these and was unsure which i should use? the general CCA Request Query or the specific CCA Dispute - Terms & Conditions Supplied.

The cover letter from Optima states enclosed is your CCA, this is clipped to a covering letter from MBNA saying that detailed there after is a copy of my most recent terms and conditions, the Agreement is not a application form but sets out their terms.

Either way it is not what i requested or expected to recieve, i was just unsure which was the best letter to use. And the SAR was really something i thought may help speed along the case.

I will get the agreement/terms conditions scanned and uploaded, but my feeling is that it is very unlikly the one i would have signed or agreed to 10 years ago.

Thanks for the help

Andy

Andy_one_day

For some reason i cannot seem to attach the scanned documments, as the settings where i make the attachment does not allow me . Can someone advise me how to do this please.

Thank you

GeorgeUK

You can't attach a scanned document on this site.
You can upload an image to a site like imageshack though and put that on the forum.

DarkConvict

As above, but also. You have a low post count, so if you can't post the link send it via a PM to myself and ill post up the link.

Query Letter - Sent when they replied within 12+2+30 days but the CCA is invalid

Dispute Letter - Sent when the 12+2+30 days limit has expired, and no 'valid' CCA has yet been sent. They may send several documents but if there is no valid CCA send it.

Andy_one_day

Thank you for the offer of posting up the links. I will send them to you directly.

Sorry to appear somewhat dumb, but just to make sure i have this right. I should now be printing of and sending the Query Letter in the first instance, nothing else? i only ask, and was unsure on this, as having look at them, there is a letter there titled CCA Dispute/ Section 10 Request, and it appears to deal directly with the issue in question, is there a reasoning behind the Query first?, i was just thinking, the less time i give them to respond the harder it is for them to come up with the documents, which as we all know in truth do not exisit, apart from in the form of the application.

Due to the timescales i was looking at sending them a SAR inculded with either of the above. It has been suggested to me that it does no harm and the more work they have to do the better as far as i am concerened. Is there any reason not to request this at this time?

Thanks for you input i will get the links over to you. Very kind of you

DarkConvict

Andy_one_day wrote:

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/onedaydebtfree/mbnaagreement056.jpgPriority application with your own personal details...no required terms.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/onedaydebtfree/mbnaagreement062.jpgReverse of above and same image of 037 & 040 (financial and related conditions
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/onedaydebtfree/mbnaagreement037.jpgAbove finacial and related conditions.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/onedaydebtfree/mbnaagreement040.jpg
Above close up of image 037 (financial and related conditions).
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/onedaydebtfree/mbnaagreement035.jpg
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/onedaydebtfree/mbnaagreement004.jpg

PM from andy with links.

never-in-doubt

The documents sent are unenforceable. There is no signed agreement with the prescribed terms intact.

Send the following letter in response to this and cease repayment, if not already: 3. CCA Query

As previously directed by DarkConvict - all the help you'll need is here: Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

DarkConvict wrote: »

Query Letter - Sent when they replied within 12+2+30 days but the CCA is invalid

Dispute Letter - Sent when the 12+2+30 days limit has expired, and no 'valid' CCA has yet been sent. They may send several documents but if there is no valid CCA send it.

:D:D

Query Letter is sent when they send the application form usually, the dispute is to end all communication - and includes a s.10 (cease & desist) which isn't really relevant but still, pointless deleting the text right now as it does no harm......

The easiest way of describing the difference is by remembering the query letter is when they send an app form and the dispute is when they just won't listen anymore and you're saying 'go away until you have an agreement'...

:rotfl:

Andy_one_day

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Query letter it is then.

I have recieved quite a bit of feedback here and on other forums siince posting up the pictures and people with far greater knowledge than myself have pulled them to pieces regards how many errors they contain. I have to get away to work now but later this evening i will return and copy and past some of the replys i have receieved pointing out a few of the serious flaws on trying to rely on this application form as a aggreement. Even someone as unwise as myself, as to what is and isn't correct, its seems clear that the information required is not there and nor could it ever be correct by their own wording of the application. It may prove reassuring to others like myself who may read the thread at some point.

Must dash, thank you all for your replies, have a good day and keep up the great work.