Sell your house - buy a caravan

Debt_Free_Chick

westernpromise wrote:

But the neighbours were all !!!!!!.

What are you on about?

Xbigman

OK. I'm back from the sunny SW.

Firstly, I am not a solicitor nor in a planning dept. I am only reporting what I've been told. This was partly in response to my saying I would consider moving into an established park home in the future. I did a search and there are loads in Berkeley vale in gloucestershire. I found several that were freehold on the rightmove site and that got me thinking and asking.

Anyway. My friend at work is moving to the SW and invited several of us to a combined housewarming/leaving do. He has bought an apartment for cash at a big discount. Prices are depressed down in Devon and cash is king when buying properties. We crashed in one of his holiday caravans (empty due to a last minute cancellation, about which he is still crying:D ). I had a chance to question several of his buddies down there. Apparently it is all about location. Some area's have councils which are very lax about park homes and it is those area's where this is going on. Devon and Cornwall were cited as amongst the best places but the absolute easiest is....
.... Haverford west.

I suggested this was illegal and got laughed at. I was then shown two park homes adjacent to the caravan site I was at. Both are full blown houses in all but name and both are on land previously used for farming. The older of the two has been there 5 years.

So what can I say. Maybe it is just a case of finding somewhere councils don't care. Maybe there is some great mystical loophole I don't know about. Maybe you have to have a certain outlook on life and not mind having a dodgy home.
All I can tell you is that it is possible.

Now is a (legit) park home practical? Thats a more interesting question, although I suspect a number of posters on this thread won't give anything like a park home a chance, it is worth looking at.

I saw a cheap park home for 56k with a 23 year lease last year (Supposedly the minimum lease on a park home is now 50 years). No garden or garage. If I downgraded I'd be able to clear my mortgage and put 29k in the bank. That is worth thinking about. However, I'd want a freehold. Those are much more rare and pricey. Of the two I've seen the cheaper was 89k. I'd have to strip my ISA to completely dump the mortgage and factor in traveling to work costs. This just isn't for me yet, nor is it my particular dream. Its just an interesting option if other things don't work out.
Regards



X

Xbigman

I can't sleep so I've had a wander around various sites as well as googling park homes. To be honest, they are a mess. I went through the ukparks website and the prices are scary (158k for a oversized caravan!). It wasn't obvious at first but a lot of these sites sell the home but charge you ground rent as well. Up until now I've only seen lease or freehold homes but this new charging structure is becoming widespread. I've also read the age concern FAQ sheet which directly contradicts other documents and I've looked through some of the local council websites. Only one mentions park homes at all and actually says nothing. Then there are the restrictions. Age limits and no pets or children are common. One said no spitting another said no bare chests.
Park homes on an existing site are quite frankly a no go for me.

As for doing your own. If you want to avoid a legal nightmare buy a piece of ground with planning permission already in place. There are loads of plots around the country and some will allow a mobile home on these plots, you just need to phone the local planning office. Some won't allow anything but whats already approved for that plot as it needs to fit in with the adjacent buildings. Buying a piece of land and just putting a PH there... I'm not convinced its a safe bet. I'd certainly go about it more legitimately and go through the planning office first. Given my local councils general social housing policies (you can't put up a shelf or pelmet in a council house without written permission) I probably wouldn't even bother to ask them.

Having seen small flats in Devon for 50k I must say moving to the south coast seems a far better bet.
Regards



X

seven-day-weekend

>>Having seen small flats in Devon for 50k <<

Where are these? I'm interested!

PM me if inappropriate to answer on the board

calleyw

what about a log cabin instead of a caravan.

see here

As long as they comes in no more than two pieces and does not exceed certain size you can have that instead of a caravan.

And it looks nicer and will be a lot warmer.


Yours


Calley

Xbigman

seven-day-weekend wrote:

>>Having seen small flats in Devon for 50k <<

Where are these? I'm interested!

PM me if inappropriate to answer on the board

Phone around the estate agents in Paignton and Torquay. These are holiday towns and prices are much higher in the summer. In winter those who have to sell start cutting prices and take silly offers. My friend who is moving down there has been getting monthly updates from estate agents for 18 months and watching prices. He has put in offers on about 5 properties, one was half the asking price and was only just beaten by the eventual purchaser.
Most important factors are cash on hand (for silly offers) and getting to know the estate agents down there.
He has just picked up a 2 bed flat for 52k and is developing it as a holiday let. (edit; both his purchases were agreed in early march, just before prices went on their summer rise. If you start seeing estate agents now you will be in position to get something early next year.)

Don't get too excited about moving down there though. Average pay is 13 or 14k. good pay is 16k. When he told people down there he earnt 20k a year they asked who they had to kill to get a job like that? (he and I are the second lowest paid group on nights - most earn 24k) He has seriously considered commuting to bristol from the south coast.
Regards



X

tempuscat

Thanks to margaretclare and others here for being psychic. . .

Our situation is that an overseas property purchase fell through last year so we're still in the UK. I'm retired, my wife has two years still to go. We own our home here.

We recently met some people who, on retirement, sold their own home and bought a 'tingdean' log cabin for £100k, and then invested the balance in a property in Spain which they rent out for 3 or 4 months a year and use themselves for the remainder. They suggested we take a serious look at "park homes".

Cutting a lo-o-nng story short, we recently visited a beautiful, long-established park comprised of 30 'units', 24 statics and 4 log cabins. One of the cabins is for sale. It's new and superbly built. The site is offering a 30-year-long 'licence'. The site's annual fee is £1,800 incl VAT plus £275 "rates".

The 'cabin' is from Tingdean and is 48ft x 20ft with verandah, drive, etc. It's centrally heated and double glazed. Evyerthing is included, right down to digital TV, hi fi, bed linen and crockery / cutlery. It's typical of today's 'park homes' and bears no resemblance to 'log cabins' of yesteryear mentioned elsewhere on this thread.

We've been offered the cabin at a special reduced rate (there's a family connection). We're now seriously wondering whether we should buy this now on some kind of mortgage -- advice, please????? -- rather than wait another two years, which is when we'll be selling our main property.

The site allows residents (it doesn't permit tourers, and it discourages families with children from purchasing there) to stay there for 46 weeks out of 52. During the six week winter closure, we'd envisage being out of the UK anyway, enjoying warmer weather abroad.

What we're wrestling with, however, is a dilemma others may have faced here: bricks-and-mortar is an appreciating asset; park homes are definitely not. So on paper at least it's an outlay of around £90,000 for something with a life-time of 30 years. . . after which it will be worthless. (Or are we wrong???)

Factor in £2,000 pa minimum -- £60,000 over 30 years -- and that's £150,000 "gone" in 30 years, at a rate of £5,000 a year, over a hundred quid a week (unless my maths are wrong).

I know there are enthusiasts for modern, park home living, but I can't get my head around where the value-for-money exists. That said though, the park we looked at was, well, incredible, serene, beautifully tended, and in a glorious country location. And my wife has fallen in love with the Tingdean cabin we saw to the extent that, as she says, why not make it our 'main' home, and instead of buying something abroad, why not invest the proceeds of the sale of our existing home, stick it in a savings account, and use the interest each year to help fund extended holidays in the sun????

Any comments, opinions here would be welcome as you lot are much wiser than us. If anyone does think it would be a good idea though to 'plunge in', is it the case that a conventional mortgage (of around £50,000) would be available to help fund the purchase of this park home / log cabin -- or would we have to consider some kind of equity release loan???? Help!

seven-day-weekend

Xbigman wrote:

Phone around the estate agents in Paignton and Torquay. These are holiday towns and prices are much higher in the summer. In winter those who have to sell start cutting prices and take silly offers. My friend who is moving down there has been getting monthly updates from estate agents for 18 months and watching prices. He has put in offers on about 5 properties, one was half the asking price and was only just beaten by the eventual purchaser.
Most important factors are cash on hand (for silly offers) and getting to know the estate agents down there.
He has just picked up a 2 bed flat for 52k and is developing it as a holiday let. (edit; both his purchases were agreed in early march, just before prices went on their summer rise. If you start seeing estate agents now you will be in position to get something early next year.)

Don't get too excited about moving down there though. Average pay is 13 or 14k. good pay is 16k. When he told people down there he earnt 20k a year they asked who they had to kill to get a job like that? (he and I are the second lowest paid group on nights - most earn 24k) He has seriously considered commuting to bristol from the south coast.
Regards



X

Thanks for the information. :T

The low wages wouldn't bother us as we are retired. It's just one of several options at the moment....but I'll keep your information.

Debt_Free_Chick

tempuscat wrote:

Factor in £2,000 pa minimum -- £60,000 over 30 years -- and that's £150,000 "gone" in 30 years, at a rate of £5,000 a year, over a hundred quid a week (unless my maths are wrong).

This is going to sound facetious and I really don't mean it to .... but ...

This is precisely why people are running park home estates. If they weren't making a shed load of money out of it, they wouldn't bother.

Xbigman

Hi tempuscat.

First off, you can't get a normal mortgage on a log cabin or anything temporary like this. If you have a large deposit or other assets to secure against you could get a mortgage from someone but you would need to really hunt for a good deal. If you have another property your best bet (as far as mortgaging is concerned) would be to mortgage that to raise the cash.
Is mortgaging a good idea? That comes down to personal circumstances such as whether or not you could pay the mortgage from your retirement income. I know you said you have a property to sell in the future but a good rule of thumb is to never take on a debt you can't pay anyway.
90k for a log cabin might sound a lot but what would a house in that location cost, 250k? {in Yate a one bed paper machete studio flat is going for 82500}If you can afford it and you love the location and lifestyle then go for it. As for lifespan, they do last longer than 30 years. The ageconcern FAQ says that you cannot be forced off a site because of the age of your park home as long as it is well maintained. Whether this applies if your lease is time limited is an interesting question. I suspect not. If I were you I would contact age concern and ask these questions. If they can't answer them they will put you onto someone who can.

2k a year ground rent sounds dear to me, but then the rates (council tax equivelent) are a grand a year less than an ordinary house. What else do the site owners do for you, empty bins for one? Get a complete list of services. Also to consider is the type of heating. If its LPG gas or oil fired this will work out several hundred pounds dearer per year, but this is further complicated by the fact you are not there in winter so it might even end up cheaper.
How isolated is the site? How far to the nearest supermarket or doctors.
Is the site closed in winter or can you take your weeks off site anytime.
What if you are ill just before the site closes?

There's plenty to think about there. Its a case of doing as much research as possible. One thing I'd do is talk to your prospective neighbours. If they are older or retired they can probably answer all those questions.
Regards



X