what's the most refined/comfortable/quietest small family car? French?

goldspanners

dada44 wrote: »

thanks goldenspanners. would you count the 1st generation pre-2004 citroen c5 in this category aswell? that's the only one on autotrader that is near me..

i haven't driven the newer version, it was a 53 plate i drove,utterly awful. but you might like it.

cyclonebri1

dada44 wrote: »

ok, here are reviews of some cars I've test driven this year, primarily driven testing comfort and ride (how smooth it is).

Renault Clio (57 reg, 1.6 privelage) - supposedly one of the leaders in its class, but very thin sheet metal used in its frame, so meant a very firm and hard ride. if you like sporty handling, you may enjoy this, but i got tired of all the bumps. It was relatively pretty quiet for its class, but not really that quiet compared to bigger cars.

Toyota Prius (55) - this was a fun car to drive! it was very spongy, which meant it felt like it was floating on the road. You hardly felt any bumps. The steering wasn't so firm, but I didn't really care. It was pretty quiet around town too, because of the hybrid technology. However, there seemed to be quite a lot of road noise - other prius members have complained about this in their forum. Now I'm not sure if this is simply because there is reduced engine noise compared to other cars, making the road noise seem louder, or whether it was actually louder. Car also gave off a funky smell coming from the battery compartment, which put me off it really. If you look at the forums, ppl complain of this too. Can't be too good for your health.

VW Golf IV (x reg, 1.6) - NICE car. Refined and comfortable. Most reviewers are looking for cheap thrills, so call this car's handling too weak, but I think it's great. Gave me a lot of problems though (I owned it). And kept on breaking down.

VW Golf V (56 reg, 1.6) - As the reviews say, a comfortable, impressively quiet car, but very firm. Unnecessarily so. Put me off it.

VW Golf VI (09) - I like the suspension on this. Just right. However, ppl keep on saying how refined it is and quiet. I don't really think so. Or maybe I just expect too much. It's pretty good, but it aint 5 star. Maybe 4. I test drove the 1.4 tsi.

Renault Megane (56, 1.6)- Another Renault that is so flimsily made from thin sheet metal. It's supposedly meant to be a comfortable ride, but I could feel all the bumps on the road. Not impressed!!

Peugeot 307 (56, 1.6 S) - Drives like a toy car. Fun Ride, seemed pretty comfortable (although i'd probably need another ride). A Lot of engine noise, surprisingly so. Weak engine.

Ford Focus (56, Ghia 1.6) - All the reviews rave about this car. It's pretty comfortable and absorbs most potholes, but there's this huge section in between the two front seats which steals a lot of legroom. Bad design. Otherwise this car wouldn't be so bad. Ghia model seats are a bit too soft.

Rover 75 (03, 1.8) - some ppl on this forum hark on and on about this car. Took it for a test drive recently. Firstly, it's a very HEAVY car. And for the 1.8 engine, you will feel like you're struggling sometimes. I could also feel the engine vibrating from my seat. However, really quiet!! I like a lot for this reason. And the ride seemed to absorb most potholes, but only because of it's humungous weight. Which makes it pretty uncomfortable for town driving and bendy roads. I imagine it would be nice on a motorway.

BMW E46 3 Series (04, 318i SE)- very quiet. nice, sharp ride. But again, a very heavy car and you can feel this weight with the 318i.

BMW E90 3 Series (55, 318i SE) - very quiet, really nice seats. I like it a lot. But i do not like feeling all the bumps in the road. Apparently, this is largely due to the run flat tires, which can be replaces. a lot of complaints about this (esp on top gears website). Come on BMW, get ur act together!

Vauxhall Astra (56, 1.6 Club) - I liked this car. I would never have gone for a vauxhall, ever. but this car is... nice. Not as firm as the VW, and more legroom than the focus. It is probably a tad on the firm side, but this is the closest thing that matches the VW Golf MK 4 for comfort. I drove the 1.6 engine, which was nice. Leaves a pleasant feeling in my tummy.

I wonder if the 15 inch tyres on the Life model, compared to the 16 inch alloys on Club, make much of a difference?

Citroen C4 (56) - reviewers say how quiet and comfortable the ride is. I think the engine I test drove was rather out of it, because it was drony and loud. the salesman said it needed a service, so maybe it would have been quieter. It is TOO FIRM. Definately not so comfortable!

Honda Accord (56) - too firm. not that quiet either

Toyota Avensis (55) - too firm. noisier than it should be.

Audi A3 (56, 2.0l diesel) - way too much road noise. Audi!?! It's like they didn't soundproof at all. Comfortable ride and handling though, very nice mix.

Mercedez-Benz C180 saloon - (51) - hm.. nice but bland ride. don't like the layout of the buttons. Feels a bit heavy, but lighter than the bmw. Feels larger though. Probably a good all rounder. Can't decide between this and the E46. I'd probably go for this because of the lighter weight. However, the automatic gearbox on this really stinks.

I get the impression that most of these car makers, are making their cars firmer to ride, because of bored thrill seeking reviewers. Perhaps it's just me, but I'd imagine most ppl looking for saloon cars, or comfortable cars, are happy with a "spongy" handling like the Golf MK IV or Toyota Prius, not to say they are spongy in my opinion.

FINAL VERDICT:

I think I am happy on the Vauxhall Astra. I never thought I'd be saying this.
Plus, the idea of driving around, what in my mind is a police car, is :eek:.

Other cars I would like to test drive longer: BMW 3 Series E46. If this car didn't feel so heavy, I think it would be perfect. and if i could afford it, the 3 series E90 without run flats.

I would like to have a go on the Renault Laguna (though something tells me this will be flimsy with thin sheet metal like all the other Renaults), or the Citroen C5 (would *love* to try out the famous suspension on this.)

Also.. Seat Leon. I like the interior a lot. I wonder if it as good as it seems.. particularly with VW's input.

hope this was helpful. let me know if there's anything u'd like to know these cars.

Jeeeeeez, and it's only February, bet the local dealers cringe when they see you coming :rotfl: :rotfl:

pwllbwdr

dada44 wrote: »

VW Golf V (56 reg, 1.6) - As the reviews say, a comfortable, impressively quiet car, but very firm. Unnecessarily so. Put me off it.


Rover 75 (03, 1.8) - some ppl on this forum hark on and on about this car. Took it for a test drive recently. Firstly, it's a very HEAVY car. And for the 1.8 engine, you will feel like you're struggling sometimes. I could also feel the engine vibrating from my seat. However, really quiet!! I like a lot for this reason. And the ride seemed to absorb most potholes, but only because of it's humungous weight. Which makes it pretty uncomfortable for town driving and bendy roads. I imagine it would be nice on a motorway.

Curious. Kerb weight of a 1.8 R75 is 1390kg. Kerb weight of 2006 Golf 1.6 is 1359kg.

Doesn't really justify calling the 75 a "very heavy" car does it as it is quite a bit bigger than the Golf.

People "harp" on about the 75 because it was a lovely car to own and drive (in my opinion). Wouldn't buy one now though.

Lemonade_Pockets

Beaten to it by Pwllbwdr however ill add that the BMW is actually lighter than the merc.

I'm genuinely keen to know how you arrived at the conclusion that Renaults were made out of flimsy sheet metal and also this impacts on the ride?

Kazipoo

I've owned a few small cars, Renault Clio 1.2, very heavy for a small car, no power steering, ok for the purpose. VW Polo 1.2 53 plate, very nippy, felt very light, held its own, for a small car, one of the best in my opinion. Currently have a VW Golf 1.9 TDi, it has been my favourite car so far, handling is excellent, ride is somewhat firm, but not uncomfortable by any means, responsive and a good all round performer.

Hubby has over the years had several Rovers. They are quite refined in my opinion, comfortable, like an old pair of slippers, but it really does feel sometimes like you are driving your couch around, first one we had was the 820 fastback, lots of power, he loved it, I call it an old mans car!! Don't get me started on Mondeo's, they are the most awful car to drive in my opinion, again, the hubby loves the way they drive, obviously he doesn't mind driving a blancmange... for me they are unresponsive, spongy and old!! Also the Peugeot 307sw drives very similar... I see a pattern forming, he likes old man cars, spongy, unresponsive, shed like, and I much prefer a firmer more responsive handling and ride. Although, he has admitted on several occassions that he loves to drive my car, simply because its nice to "play in"!!!

Lemonade_Pockets

Mondeo un-responsive? :-S Arguably the best handling in its class.

And i'm not regurgitating magazine reviews having worked in dealership for a long period of time i've driven most modern cars at some point.

AdrianHi

dada44 wrote:

I think it would be perfect. and if i could afford it, the 3 series E90 without run flats.

Removing the run flats makes a massive difference (done it!) but your left with suspension that is slightly under damped unless you have M Sport suspension. This means it gets a bit bouncy and the ride is still going to be "firmish".
Perfect would be no run flats AND changing all the shock absorbers for Koni FSD's (Frequency Selective Dampers). They have dual oil chambers which enables them to give a stif response to low frequency movements like taking a bend or going over undualation sin the road, but a soft response to high frequency movements like drive over a pothole or on a cobbled street. They even manage to do both at the same time - take a bend where the road surface is bumpy.
Do this and you end up with a car that is more or less perfect and feels a lot like an old E39 5 series with M Tech suspension.
Mmmm, there's an idea, how about an old E39 5 series? They are around in the £2000-£8000+ price bracket though you need to account for the higher running costs. Pricey but you have very discernign requirements regarding ride that might only be satisfied with a more costly vehicle.

dada44

ok. before i go upsetting ppl, I'd just like to say that my opinion is simply that, my opinion. However, I would say that my senses are fairly refined enough to make value judgements on these cars...

Lemonade Pockets - I came to the conc. about Renault being flimsy, simply by going for a test drive. I also owned a Clio. Particularly when you open the doors of a Megane and a Clio, they feel a *lot* lighter than most cars. Even if you give them a knock with your knuckles, they feel quite "tinny". I've had other dealers say the same. When you're in the driver's seat, you do feel considerably a lot more bumps. I think this has less to do with the suspension (although I'm sure this is part of it) and more to do with the build (although this is just a hunch).

Driving the clio made a long term knee injury worse. I've never had this with a car before. I changed to a VW Polo (1.4, 54 reg) - which is a solid built car. Ride is comfortable too. However is it is very noisy for what I expected (not as bad as something like a yaris, but still). A lot of road noise. And the engine is weak - feels like a 1.2.

pwllbwdr - thanks for telling me the Golf and rover 75 are similar weights. Very interesting to know. However, in terms of driver experience, I guess the weight of a car is relative to it's engine power. The Rover 75 really did feel like a coach, especially when it came to stopping and starting in traffic. This could be due to weak brake pads (though the dealer said they were fine). Even when turning around bends, it generally seemed cumbersome. I felt the power steering was significantly underpowered. Driving around town would itself be a lot more uncomfortable, with the amount of effort required to steer this thing!

I would never have guessed that the Golf was the same weight though.

With regards to the BMW and Merc - I would like to test this out a bit more. Generally, the BMW seemed well refined and comfortable. But it did feel... tighter?... than a merc. Which might equate it to me feeling it was heavier. That said, I only got to test drive it for 5 mins, whilst we had the merc for a few years.

dada44

AdrianHi - how much do you think it would cost for the Koni FSD on a 3 series BMW?

All in all, I think I am going to settle for VXhall Astra 1.6 Life/Club. I shall take it for another test drive, and see what it's like on slightly bumpier roads. The test drive I had done previously was more or less a straight, smooth road. Something tells me I won't be too pleased, but I think it'll be a good compromise.

If this doesn't work out I think I will settle for a E46 318i, with a budget of around 5.5k. I am hesitant to go down this route, even though there seem to be a plethora of bargains of used cars around this price, because they all seem to have underpowered engines compared to newer cars, like the Astra (?). Would it be feasible to say that an Astra's 1.6 (56) is equivalent to a 1.8 from (52)?

Also, smaller hatchback is easier to drive around town, and park. As well as greener, and cheaper with the tax.

And as I don't know much about cars (yet), the thought of getting a 6/7 year old BMW that might start giving me problems in 2 years, is a bit nerve wracking.

Kazipoo

Lemonade_Pockets wrote: »

Mondeo un-responsive? :-S Arguably the best handling in its class.

And i'm not regurgitating magazine reviews having worked in dealership for a long period of time i've driven most modern cars at some point.

Ah, its just my opinion, I really can't stand the car, its like driving jelly. The steering feels slack, in comparison to my Golf the car felt old, but it was only 2 years older than the Golf. It made me nervous to drive the car, perhaps it was just the huge difference in cars, but I have drove several cars from supermini's up to MPV/4x4's and never felt distressed, but the Mondeo gave me palpitations.

We did lots of research and he test drove loads of cars before he decided on the Mondeo, and like I say, he loved it, but for me, the Golf feels like its better put together, firmer, safer almost!