Things that make you want to cry....

pdoff

Sybarite wrote:

On a separate issue;

I've intentionally dropped litter once in my life - an apple core - when I didn't know what else to do with it & I couldn't but it in my pocket.

However I frequently see people blithely throwing things out of their cars or in the street.

I had the notion that littering is both unslightly and a healthy hazard drummed into me at school & at home - as I suspect most people have.

I wondered if anyone has ever challenged a litterer & been given a justification for it by the offender - however spurious?

Not a topic of global importance I know, but I find it difficult to comprehend why people still do it.

we take a rubbish bag with us under the pushchair / in the car for taking litter home, but i see no problem with throwing something biodegradable like an apple core under a tree or bush, as long as it's not in the middle of the path for people to fall over.
when ds1 was 3 he once saw a man drop a crisp packet in town & loudly said "look at that naughty man he should put it in the bin". i was embarrassed & expecting abuse from the man but instead he looked ashamed & picked the bag up!! bet if i'd have said something he'd have laughed in my face but from a 3 year old it made him ashamed.
btw we recycle a lot, use washable nappies etc but hubby does have a 4x4 - this is cos he tows trailers & cars every weekend so he needs the power. i had to borrow it last week when mine was in the garage & i hated it, also hated knowing that people were probably thinking i was one of those school run mums (when ds1 starts school in sep he will be walking).

dougk_2

What annoys me is all this packaging that we get that is recyclable yet the council won't take away and recycle. Same goes for glass (bootles etc). Why the hell can't the local council recycle it????? Why are we expected to take it to bottle banks in our cars?
It about time a useful piece of government legislations that says the local authority MUST recycle any waster that is marked as recyclable. If they don't have the facilities they should build them - no excuses.

Lillibet_2

Cardew wrote:

You beat me to it!

I have absolutely no argument with anyone who wishes to implement themselves, what they consider, sound environmental practice.

I do object however to those people who try to 'lay the finger of blame' on other people. e.g.

The idiots who pass moral judgement on those who go on holiday by plane.

I sincerely hope that this comment is not aimed at myself, for a comment I have made in another thread about being to conscience of fuel emmissiosn to travel to long haul destinations any more? If it is in refernce to me, I was referring to myself & what I am ethically comfortable doing, not passing judgement on anyone else which would I hope was clear by the fact that I didn't refer to anyone besides myself. The "I" was the giveaway:D

If it wasn't in reference to myself then I apologize for taking this thread slightly off topic but I am seeing a lot of unpleasent posts on this board and am starting to feel very self-defensive. Some post are not directly to do with money saving & being green and/or ethical, or even to do with money saving versus green/ethical, but some of the snide "I recycle more than you do" kind and a some blatently worse. (these are not specifics & should not be construed as being aimed at any one person). In my opinion this board is bringing out an unpleasent side to a lot of posters, myself included, which I don't like seeing. I hope it is just that so many of us feel passionate about the topic but I don't like where it is taking me or others. I had hoped that this board would encourage and help us all to be greener or at least more conscience of the ethical repercussions of our decisions whilst saving money. I see some evidence of that but not much. I think personally the best I can do is refrain from posting anymore on this board.

dougk_2

Lillibet,

I wouldn't worry too much - don't forget there are two sides to every argument :-). If you want to get judged and get into a slanging match try on the House Buying board pages!

Seriously though, I believe there are various levels of "greeness" - there are things that help and then there are things that are ideal. Remember primarily this website is about moneysaving and unfortuantely on many occassion "green" and moneysaving don't go together so you will get opposing arguments. Rememeber also as they say "every little helps".

When it is cheaper to go abroad long haul rather than go away in your own country for a holiday people forget about the "greener issues". Whilst I accept that air travel causes undesired pollution, it can be said that perhaps it causes less pollution than towing a caravan around our congested roads which is often seen as a "green" holiday and good for our country.

Basically we should all be adults on this forum and not slag each other off, respect each others opinons and realise that from time to time we won't see eye to eye with other people as sometimes there are no right and wrong answers.

I would hope you reconsider leaving us and continue your posting on these forums as many people have thanked you for your posts.

Sybarite

Indeed, I would echo dougk's sentiments. I also always thought that the essence of the MSE site was mutual co-operation, stemming from the realisation that big companies frequently take us for a ride or try and milk us for every penny they can.

None of us are holier than holy - all you can do is try your best, apply political pressure and make an informed choice to avoid unnecessary environmentally damaging actions whenever you can as much as your circumstances allow.

Some people are, I think, justifiably cynical regarding the current solutions available to assuage our 'environmental' concerns. In line with the established MSE ethic, we know that someone, somewhere will be trying to make an illicit or excessive profit from 'Green' goods or services; it's a desire we as consumers have, so it's a desire that can be exploited. But the expolitation works both ways.

Such negatives and scepticism needs to be taken into a longer term context with regard to what we consume - a context I perceive as increasingly positive in outlook. This is a site for people who want to cut their bills or perhaps pick up a cheap appliance - what the green boards prove is that an increasing number of people also see that the environmental cost of these purchases, not an easy facet to quantify in £, is also a factor in their decision whether or not to buy.

We do have to wipe away some of the greenwash - but MSE's tend to be quite good an analysing corporations' marketing and general BS and apply these skill to their councils, governments ...in fact any organisation which seeks to publically say one thing but privately do another.

The 'I'm greener than you' comments are, as Lillibet states misplaced. Encouraging people to feel concern for their environment is difficult enough without disuasive criticism. As individuals we can do little enough, an energy saving bulb here, turning off the standby button there, these are all perceived quite rightly by the sceptics as pi$$ing in the wind, it saves what, a powerstations output, 1/2 a powerstation. But and it's a big and curvacious butt, it is incremental change. The more people who participate, the more mainstream it becomes, the more the inconsistencies, contradictions & absurdities of say shipping household recyclables to China are hopefully ironed out, until eventually selfish concerns and self preservation start to coincide a lot more than they currently do:

'I would have bought an SUV a few years ago, but now that road tax is 4x more than a normal car and lower emission engine earns me a rebate I'm not really so convinced anymore'.

'my new flat's great, it's built to the new zero emissions building regs. Since moving in my cost of living has fallen and the flat value increases each time energy prices rise'.

The most constructive things we can do is to share and constantly re-evaluate our assumptions and apply pressure to those who have more power than we individually possess. Fax your MP. Ask your council to provide evidence of where your careful recycling ends up and how far it's transported - you pay for them, make them accountable. Complain to the supermarket phonelines about blueberries from Peru & the manufacturers over their 7 layers of non-recyclable packaging & how you'll no longer be buying whatever it is until they change it.

By way of anecdote; bright spark that my MP is, when newly elected I contacted him & asked if his home and surgery used green electricty, what he's done to reduce his carbon footprint, and wouldn't it be a nice idea if he installed renewal energy of some sort to meet his consistuency offices need. I'd call that community leadership. Not much response, six weeks later a wishy two line reply & no commitment. Fine, I suggested that as he's in a marginal constituency and if he wants me to even consider him at voting time he'd have to address my concerns, I went further as i considered that this slightly dismissive attitude and tardiness in replying weren't in keeping with the direction in which his (new) party leadership were heading to secure fresh voters; I'd also be forwarding his communication to his parties head office, asking for a comment and suggesting he's not really 'on-message' so needs to be brought up to speed. Apologetic response ensued and promise to alter his energy supplier immediately, with a reassurance that green things had been booted up this agenda. A very small victory perhaps, but focus groups & feedback now dictate political agenda (however cynically they are pandered to or appeased) & MPs are like schoolchildren, always wanting to be part of the cool gang or noticed by the bigger kids.

It doesn't always work, especially if a big polluter has enough influence -those naughty airlines and their political donations - I wonder why we're being urged to switch off our TV but airports still get permission to expand? But it's worth complaining until eventually those with the power to alter things get the message.

I like my standard of living as much as the next consumer, but I don't want it to be 'cheap' at any price.

impy78

Altarf wrote:

What cheered me up this week was the case of Donna Challice, now that was one in the eye for the sanctimonious brigade - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2264066,00.html

I pressed mistake by accident BTW!!!

Couldn't they still prosecute her for her haircut on the grounds of creating a local eyesore??? Mind you, looks like she's possibly housing birds in her hair, so maybe we should thank her?

Things that make me want to cry - when I see kids picking on other kids.

I have to admit there have a couple of occasions where I have confronted the bully, and asked them how they would like it if me and my friends started hasseling them, and to remember that that I got that bus every day... SO I WILL BE WATCHING YOU!

You know, I don't generally mind people disagreeing with me, unless they are my friends, and then it upsets me.

Oh apart from the anti-windmill brigade (who, strangely enough are only ever the people who live a life of privillage, with a big house, big, gas guzzling car and cable knit sodding jumper wearing daily mail readers - my sworn enemies! ). One of them was whinging on that I wouldn't live next to these unsightly things, and I blew my top, and said, "I would gladly swop, if you will come and live in my three bedroomed semi on the roughest estate in town" and then said I had more pressing things to deal with than worrying about "eyesores" that would prevent the whole county will be under water in 100 years time.

That shut her up!

kscour

And as a 4x4 owner:o what really annoys me is that whenever they are penalised by the government the news always shows the mums on the school run in surburbia - never a farmer in his landrover or someone who lives up the top of a mountain! I have to have a 4x4 for business and I'm not going to buy a separate car for the shopping! I make as few trips in the car as possible - usually just the one a week. The school run is done on foot and the local shop at about a mile away is done on foot or by bike. I wouldn't be opposed to using the bus service if we actually had one! Why does the media insist on portraying me as a swanky middle class yummy mummy who can't walk more than 2 yards:mad: Not that I wouldn't mind being a swanky middle class yummy mummy!

Sybarite

Ah yes the anti-turbine brigade, isn't it dreadful, all that clean energy and those unsightly recyclable turbines that will repay the energy used in making them many times over & that can be removed overnight.

Who wouldn't want large, heavily publically subsidised nuclear generation, with billions of ££s of decomissioning costs over decades, 5000 years of toxic waste that we've no idea where to safely put and the marginal risk of a reactor meltdown.

Now where are those newspaper tokens I cut out earlier today, I simply must get the porcelain statuette available exclusively to readers. It's delightful 'The Lady' swaddled in the American flag, symbolically standing on a prostrate miner whilst handbagging the French. You can never fail with the Daily Mail.

gromituk

I wonder if Mrs Challice of Exeter is related to Mrs Trellis of North Wales?

impy78

gromituk wrote:

I wonder if Mrs Challice of Exeter is related to Mrs Trellis of North Wales?

Thay post made me cry - with laughter!