Jelly's will questions

Jellywobble123

latest info via my nephew who is joint executor...apparently the wife had an Enduring Power of Attorney from 17 May 2006...I dont understand why the POA then told me there was no record??
From the "attendance notes" written by solicitor at the meeting a month preceeding the rewritting of Dads Will in 2008,present were the solicitor,the wife,the financial advisor and Dad. It is noted that all the changes were being made as a result of advice from the IFA,supposedly to avoid tax.He had recommended the sale of Dads shares etc that had been left in his Will of 1998 to the grandchildren.
Surely all this points to "undue influence"...my poor Dad surrounded by all these people when he was far from well???

Any advice please as this looks worse by the day..could they get away with all this claiming it was all done to avoid tax ie changing the will so it was all left to the wife??

RAS

Jellywobble123 wrote: »

latest info via my nephew who is joint executor...apparently the wife had an Enduring Power of Attorney from 17 May 2006...I dont understand why the POA then told me there was no record??

I think you will find that the EPA was signed and operated in May 2006, but that wife failed to regsiter it with the COP?

Now you have a date, ask them again.

Jellywobble123

how does an epa work compared with a general/ordinary?

RAS

Jellywobble123 wrote: »

how does an epa work compared with a general/ordinary?

You need to read here. http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/

Basically these are the old rules.

An ordinary power of attorney is made when someone is well mentally and they can halt its use at any time. People might use this when they go abroad travelling for instance. If the donor becomes incapable of managing their affairs the POA is rendered invalid and any actions taken by the attorney are void.

An Enduring Power of Attorney is made when someone is well mentally and they can alter it any time they want whilst they are capable. The important bit is that if the donor becomes incapable of managing their affairs, the attorney can still act for them (that's the Enduring bit). BUT, Big BUT, in order to carry on acting as an attorney after the person is incapable, the attorney has to register the EPA with the Court of Protection/PGO. They need to provide evidence that the donor is no longer capable, provide evidence that they have spoken to the donor and explained that they are registering the EPA and have to inform certain relatives of the donor of their intentions.

It can take anything for a couple of momths to 6-9months to register an EPA, depending if there are any objections. In the mean-time a putative donor can do very little-basically the Court allows them to pay the bills no more.

If the attorney does not register the EPA, it is null and void from the time the donor ceased to be capable.

Jellywobble123

have contacted the OPG & they now want £25 to check out if it was registered! The other day when I phoned they just checked it out over the phone!

Ive sent off the OPG100 application to see what that turns up.I doubt very much if it was ever registered.

barbeka

I had to register an EPA a few years ago, when an elderly relative went into a Nursing Home & could no longer manage her affairs. It's not a simple thing to do the person applying for the Power of Attorney (PoA) has to complete a long complicated form which includes notifying the nearest 3 blood relations of the person - which I'm sure should have included you as there is a list giving the priority of relations and children are high up the list. If one child has to be notified they all should be so I would be suspicious if neither you or your siblings had been notified. However I'm not sure if the PGO check that the relations have been notified.

I would be very surprised if the banks accepted the EPA without the official stamps from the PGO as it was a rigamarole to get them to accept it when it had. One commented that the form was usually typed as if doubting it's validity!

I was told by 2 separate solicitors that the PGO don't know what they're doing - certainly I got different replies depending on who I spoke to, so I'm not surprised you've been told different things. However I'm not sure why if they checked over the phone to see if it had been registered that you needed to check again - didn't they give you an answer? I seem to remember from the paperwork I got back that there is a £25 fee to check it's registration but hopefully that includes getting a copy of the EPA form. If your father signed an EPA he would have needed to have been in sound mind when he did it so you may be able to prove that he wasn't.

If the EPA hasn't been registered then I would think that someone has been acting fraudulantly - but I'm not sure what you will be able to do about it at this stage.

Good luck I hope you get it sorted it's a horrible situation to be in.

Jellywobble123

My sister and I have never received any notification that the EPA was in force or was ever registered.I await my enquiry with the OPG with interest.

We have discovered today from the solicitors attendance note of 6th Feb 2008 that my Dads Will and finances were discussed without him even being there! My sister remembers that he was with her for the day...no doubt on the pretence that the wife was going to the hairdressers or something...and the metteing is decribed as being with "Mrs XXXX" and theres no mention of Dad in the notes.The solicitor,wife and IFA were all at Dads house deciding how to change the Will and then came along,again to the house,and got Dad to sign it on 8th April 08. The solicitors claim on a further attendance note that Dad was on his own that day (8th April).... but he had alzheimers and was never left alone for ONE MINUTE. It all stinks to high heaven. I think the solicitors are as bent as the wife is by the looks of it.

Our solicitors seem to be taking an age to get anywhere and even now they still havent got the answers to our questions,and all for a whopping fee of £2,000! Easy money Id say!

Jellywobble123

latest update...have had first part of dads medical notes and they make very interesting reading...there is no doubt that Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers as early as 2006.

My sister and I had raised concerns about his cognitive ability as early as 2004 before he had a by pass operation.Prior to this op the wife put a stop on him being assessed as far as his memory was concerned.

He was first referred by his GP in December 2005 to go for an assessment. His first assessment was in feb 2006 when it was noted there were "marked cognitive changes " and he had huge difficulties with the memory tests scoring 0nly 11 out of 30.He gave answers to completely different questions to the ones asked eg when asked the date he gave his date of birth,when asked what season are we in he replied " i do deal with it this is familiar to me"..total gobbledegook which we witnessed regularly. He couldnt understand what theassessor was asking him to do.

He was given a diagnosis June 2006 based on "the history of deterioration over a couple of years of memory,functioning and personality change". He was prescibed Rivastigmine from then onwards. Its heartbreaking stuff to read.

The wife then applied for attendance allowance and a council tax status discount on the basis that Dad was "severely mentally impaired", a diagnosis that was confirmed by his GP in a letter to the Council in November 2006.

After being on the meds for 6 months he went for an assessment and scored 16/30 on the MMSE test,the improvement put down to the meds.
He was reviewed 6 monthly after that.

On 12.12.07 he scored 9/30,his lowest score yet.

On 8th February 2008, two months after his very poor assessment, was the infamous meeting at his house with the solicitor,wife and financial advisor where changing his Will was discussed,we belive Dad wasnt even there as he is not recorded on the solicitors attendance notes.He was usually taken out by a carer that day of the week.

19.06.2008 Dads assessment not carried out due to "expressive and receptive dysphasia"

August 2008 Rivastigmine withdrawn as no longer having any effect.

The rest is history.

Can anyone out there who reads this tell me that all this relates to a poorly man who then went on to discuss inheritance tax and changing his Will,having made the phone call to the solicitors to book the appointment!!!????

How can someone claim benefits in 2006 on the basis that someone is "severely mentally impaired" and then try and claim that same person was 100% well enough to instigate changing their Will in 2008 cutting his beloved daughters out of it without a penny and leaving everything to her,the money grabbing,thieving b*tch!!!

Also I have found out from the OPG that the EPA taken out was never registered with them after Dad lost mental capacity.However they are not interested in the fact that as a result of her abuse of an EPA we have lost our inheritance!! Surely someone can do something about this?? Is it a Police matter???


HELP, im so distressed by these revelations I cant think straight and dont know which way to turn next to make sure she gets her comeuppance.....

Mojisola

Jellywobble123 wrote: »

latest update...have had first part of dads medical notes and they make very interesting reading...there is no doubt that Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers as early as 2006.

He was given a diagnosis June 2006 based on "the history of deterioration over a couple of years of memory,functioning and personality change". He was prescibed Rivastigmine from then onwards. Its heartbreaking stuff to read.

The wife then applied for attendance allowance and a council tax status discount on the basis that Dad was "severely mentally impaired", a diagnosis that was confirmed by his GP in a letter to the Council in November 2006.

The wife has rather shot herself in the foot by doing this - your father can't have been both capable of organising his affairs and "severely mentally impaired"!

After being on the meds for 6 months he went for an assessment and scored 16/30 on the MMSE test,the improvement put down to the meds.
He was reviewed 6 monthly after that.

On 12.12.07 he scored 9/30,his lowest score yet.

On 8th February 2008, two months after his very poor assessment, was the infamous meeting at his house with the solicitor,wife and financial advisor where changing his Will was discussed,we belive Dad wasnt even there as he is not recorded on the solicitors attendance notes.He was usually taken out by a carer that day of the week.

My Mum scores much higher on the test than your Dad did and there's no way she's capable of organising appointments and dealing with legal matters!

On the day the will was discussed without your father present, was he with your sister or with a carer? You need to get the facts clear so that the other side can't challenge you.

I would be worried about your solicitor doing so little for so much money. Was the firm recommended as expert in this part of the law?

Jellywobble123

Hi Mojisola,

Yes the firm of solicitors are specialists in contentious probate.....they seem to take ages to do anything,we just have to keep chasing them which i understand is the norm with solicitors!

Initially my sister thought she was out with Dad the day the Will was discussed but has since tracked her movements and found that not to be the case...we think he may have been out with a carer instaed who usually took him to the Conservative Club.We are hoping they will have a record in their members signing in register that he was there on that day...we still have to check that one out.

Thanks for the comparison with your Mum it is reasurring (in a funny sort of way) to know that someone else is in a similar situation and is not capable either of doing the things that are being claimed that our Dad did! I hope you are managing ok with it all as its a horrible thing to go through and I really feel for you at this time.