Unenforcable HSBC Credit Card. Advice Please

mr_sd

Hi guys and girls, just a few questions and a bit of background:



I have had a credit card from HSBC since 2002.

I followed the advice on the Unenforcability Templates thread and sent all of the appropriate letters to HSBC. This is where I currently stand:

- Requested credit agreement.
- Sent reminder after 14 days
- Received "credit agreement" - Had my signature on it but none of the prescribed terms (interest rate etc).
- Sent "does not contain prescribed terms" letter and tell them that they have defaulted.
- I cancel my direct debit
- Reply from HSBC saying that they will not write off the debt as they claim that the credit agreement is valid
- Received default notice
- HSBC then take a monthly payment from my HSBC current account!
- I phone and request a reversal, they say I have to put it in writing.


This is where I currently stand. I am considering going to one of the unenforcability lawyers advertised on the internet as I don't know where to go and I don't want bailiffs on my doorstep.




My questions are:


Where can I go from here?
Did HSBC take the payment from my account illegally?
Am I in a grey area?
Are there any decent lawyers if I am unable to deal with this myself?


Thanks,


Rich.

libbyjade

Hi Rich & welcome, :beer:

I was in a similar quandry to you. I sent the first few cca request letters 6 months ago and was told they were enforceable. I struggled with the legal side of things and didn't know where to turn. I considered going with a claims management company who made loads of promises about it being free if it was enforceable and a total of £200 per card for those that weren't bla bla bla. I noticed their t&c's when they sent me them and it said they would take an additional 20% of any balance proved unenforceable and also had "this agreement supercedes any prior agreements made orally or in writing". When I questioned this the sales person said oh don't worry thats just for PPI, but it didn't say just for PPI in the conditions. Don't trust any them!! :mad:

The best thing you can do is continue going it alone. I have started again with the superb advice from Never In Doubt (NID). I'd suggest you re-post at the end of the unenforceable templates thread and NID will give you some sound advice on what to do next. He's on here daily and will respond very quickly.

I'm sure you will be advised that baliffs will not be able to knock on your door despite the threats they make and there are template letters you can send if this did happen.


This is where I currently stand. I am considering going to one of the unenforcability lawyers advertised on the internet as I don't know where to go and I don't want bailiffs on my doorstep.


My questions are:


Where can I go from here?
re-post on the unenforceable template letter thread is your best start!

Did HSBC take the payment from my account illegally?
not sure NID will advise

Am I in a grey area?
see above

Are there any decent lawyers if I am unable to deal with this myself?
Do it yourself pal (with NIDs help) it'll save you loads in the long term and you'll get a buzz from pursuing it yourself. I check the thread daily now and have learned loads by reading other peoples situations and relating it to mine!

Good Luck! :T




Thanks,


Rich.[/QUOTE]

GeorgeUK

Hi Rich

Can i just clarify something?
We usually advise people who have defaulted on accounts to make a CCA request - their credit rating is already shot so they have nothing to lose by doing this. It sounds as though you were managing to make the minimum payments and did the CCA request - is this correct?

The problem with that may be that they put a default on your credit file which will stay there for 6 years. Also there is a grey area here. I have a creditcard that had a 12k+ limit until recently which i opened about 15 years ago. If i transferred all my debt to that and then did a CCA request claiming it was unenforcable they may claim it was fraud. Not sure when you last used the card but the bank may look at this argument.

If you owe money to a bank, they are allowed to 'offset' the amount from one of your other accounts (with that bank). This is not illegal. If you are claiming the debt is unenforcable you may need to change accounts so that you don't have any funds that can be taken by the bank and have your wage paid into the account.

thewad

Where's the unenforceability templates thread??

John

libbyjade

It's here

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2060575

thewad wrote: »

Where's the unenforceability templates thread??

John

DarkConvict

As above dont pay anyone to check the enforceablity, you can do it yourself for £1.

Follow the thread above - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2060575

As to taking money from your account they can do it sadly - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/setting-off

You need a new current account with a bank you have no debts with - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2044049&highlight=institution

never-in-doubt

mr_sd wrote: »

I have had a credit card from HSBC since 2002.

I followed the advice on the Unenforcability Templates thread and sent all of the appropriate letters to HSBC. This is where I currently stand:

HSBC are usually quite good, can you confirm whether you have linked pages (terms) - i.e. they can send the CCA with additional pages, if so then it may not be unenforceable. However, lets assume for ease, they never.

mr_sd wrote: »

- Requested credit agreement.
- Sent reminder after 14 days
- Received "credit agreement" - Had my signature on it but none of the prescribed terms (interest rate etc).
- Sent "does not contain prescribed terms" letter and tell them that they have defaulted.

What you've done so far is correct :T

mr_sd wrote: »

- I cancel my direct debit

Good - just make sure you do not bank with HSBC or they will utilise RoSo (set off) and will dip into your bank account!

mr_sd wrote: »

- Reply from HSBC saying that they will not write off the debt as they claim that the credit agreement is valid

Of course they do They always do!

mr_sd wrote: »

- Received default notice

Ok, standard - is this the only one you have? If so, was it worth it for one default, you'll get no credit for a few years (default remains for 6 years!).... if you have others, have you CCA'd them too?

mr_sd wrote: »

- HSBC then take a monthly payment from my HSBC current account!

Perfectly normal and acceptable within the banking industry, it is called Right of Set off (RoSo) - see here: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/40/40_setoff.htm

mr_sd wrote: »

- I phone and request a reversal, they say I have to put it in writing.

Save your stamp - they will not do it nor are they legally obliged to do it, forget this but move banks asap!

mr_sd wrote: »

This is where I currently stand. I am considering going to one of the unenforcability lawyers advertised on the internet as I don't know where to go and I don't want bailiffs on my doorstep.

Don't pay - you will get nowhere by paying! Regards to bailiffs, they will not turn up on your doorstep - you actually have more rights than they do! See here for details of what they can/can't do and how to respond to their letters/threats etc: Dealing with Bailiffs Harassment

mr_sd wrote: »

Where can I go from here?

See here: Unenforceability & Template Letters II

mr_sd wrote: »

Did HSBC take the payment from my account illegally?

Nope - see here: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/40/40_setoff.htm

mr_sd wrote: »

Am I in a grey area?

Nope - its black & white to me - the debt is unenforceable until such time HSBC provide a compliant agreement and associated terms of the account as one document (or linked).... therefore get a new bank account sorted asap!

mr_sd wrote: »

Are there any decent lawyers if I am unable to deal with this myself?

Do it yourself, link to my thread above.

Don't worry, you've done everything correctly so far....

I've also responded to you here: #1913 - try and post on that thread if you can, cheers.