HELP - advice on constructive dismissal needed?

dmg24

berkshirelady wrote: »

Hi dmg24, I note your comments about the temp. But if you're a permanent employee going back to work after a long period of sick leave, particularly after being diagnosed with stress, then you need proper reassurance that the situation is not going to happen again. Note, the word 'temp' means just that, there's nothing to say they will keep the temp on after April either, is there. From my point of view, being told there's a temp around for a few weeks only adds to the uncertainty, and therefore the stress. Not good for people trying to recuperate from something that a lot of people still think is merely being miserable. Stress can cause serious physical symptoms and an make people very ill!

and to Annihilor re: your 'absence happens' comment. yes it does, but it's not down to colleagues to work themselves silly and get ill to cover for manager's lack of business continuity planning. It's up to management to put something in place to ensure that employees' health is protected, and that service users continue to get a good service! that's what managers get paid for?

There is a difference between a short term temp and a longer term temp. The temp is already in place and will be there until at least the end of April. Anybody with any experience of the NHS would know that this is as good as a permanent employee, funding means that long term temps are commonplace.

No Tribunal would expect an employer to hire a permanent member of staff just to placate a returning member of staff.

challey3

hi i understand what you say on the temp and the number of workers, the only thing I would add that the temp is only qualified and trained to do 33% of the role, she cannot use the 2 main systems yet that most of the work needed are based around. one of the problems with them getting extra resource when the person orginally went off for the role was the specialist knowldge needed.

dmg24

challey3 wrote: »

hi i understand what you say on the temp and the number of workers, the only thing I would add that the temp is only qualified and trained to do 33% of the role, she cannot use the 2 main systems yet that most of the work needed are based around. one of the problems with them getting extra resource when the person orginally went off for the role was the specialist knowldge needed.

Could your mother not adapt her role so that the temp could do some of her duties that she does not involve this system, or suggest that the temp receives training on the system?

What does your mother want out of the situation, being realistic?

berkshirelady, a disturbance allowance should not be required for a nine mile move. A mileage allowance has already been offered.

berkshirelady

hi both,

but both answers are no good to Challey3's mum if there is no evidence that a proper long term solution is being put in place. If the temp is longer term and that is the plan, then tell her, put her mind at rest and save her some grief!

And as for this being 'commonplace in the NHS' - well, this is not a comment about Challey3's mum's capability is it, more of an idictment of her employer. I have done many years in the public sector and know all about funding, political expediency blah blah, but there are many people in the NHS getting paid big bucks to manage budgets and forecast staffing requirements. If the temp is there until the END of April (i.e. after end of financial year), then these managers must have some idea of their budgets by now?!

and if mum's colleague is subject to suspension/tribunal and for that reason the post has to be held open and filled by a temp, then tell mum, but also reassure her that if colleague is sacked, there will be a permanent replacement. I don't hear any evidence of her being reassured of that so far.

challey3

she worked out if she passed over evrything that the temp could do there would still be a shortfall of around 15 hours per week after she had done her hours, also in addition from speaking to people still working in the environment it sounds like there will be a backlog of certain items to that have not been dealt with.
Realistically she would just like them to ..
a)apologise for how she has been treated in meetings and correspondence - very unlikely
b) at least discuss how the hours could be worked in less than 5 days or discuss keeping the office where the clinics are based i.e. her current location
c) reassure her that if the temp goes or her colleague does not return that there will be adequate resource in place to fulfil the work needed

dmg24

berkshirelady wrote: »

hi both,

but both answers are no good to Challey3's mum if there is no evidence that a proper long term solution is being put in place. If the temp is longer term and that is the plan, then tell her, put her mind at rest and save her some grief!

And as for this being 'commonplace in the NHS' - well, this is not a comment about Challey3's mum's capability is it, more of an idictment of her employer. I have done many years in the public sector and know all about funding, political expediency blah blah, but there are many people in the NHS getting paid big bucks to manage budgets and forecast staffing requirements. If the temp is there until the END of April (i.e. after end of financial year), then these managers must have some idea of their budgets by now?!

and if mum's colleague is subject to suspension/tribunal and for that reason the post has to be held open and filled by a temp, then tell mum, but also reassure her that if colleague is sacked, there will be a permanent replacement. I don't hear any evidence of her being reassured of that so far.

No one can make the reassurances that you are suggesting. They cannot employ someone on a permanent basis for a role that is currently filled. Even if they did, what is to say that the new employee will not be dismissed in a few months due to a lack of work or funding difficulties?

You seem to see everything as being black and white. You clearly have not worked in a decision making role in the NHS! The OP needs to look for solutions that will help her return to work, and be practicable.

dmg24

challey3 wrote: »

she worked out if she passed over evrything that the temp could do there would still be a shortfall of around 15 hours per week after she had done her hours, also in addition from speaking to people still working in the environment it sounds like there will be a backlog of certain items to that have not been dealt with.
Realistically she would just like them to ..
a)apologise for how she has been treated in meetings and correspondence - very unlikely
b) at least discuss how the hours could be worked in less than 5 days or discuss keeping the office where the clinics are based i.e. her current location
c) reassure her that if the temp goes or her colleague does not return that there will be adequate resource in place to fulfil the work needed

I would forget about a, if they have followed procedure (and if unions have been involved I would be certain that they have) there is nothing to apologise for. It may not have gone the way that your mum wanted, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

I would accept that she will need to move offices. Could she put in a written business case as to how she could fulfil the role in less days?

I have no doubt that she will receive such a reassurance. Nonetheless, the burden will be on her to ensure that she alerts managers/ HR/ OH if she feels this is not happening.

Your mum is aware of how quickly things in the NHS change, and often not in a way that we would like. At the moment it comes across that your mum is not open to change. This implies that she needs to change her outlook, as well as the Trust finding ways to help her back into work.

I think she needs to go back and give it a go. At the moment she is worrying about problems that may not even exist.

berkshirelady

hi dmg 24. Thanks for your comments. I think I have done enough time in various parts of the public sector to be able to justify my opinion, and I'm sure the arguments about the management of the NHS could continue ad infinitum. However, Challey3's mum's situation is what started this thread, and that is the most important thing, so to that end I am in communication with Challey3 about this.

thank you.

challey3

Hi everyone

did not mean to start an argument on here and i do appreciate that everybody has different views. My main concern is for my mum and her current health state but I do also accept some of the comments made about how she may need to give it a go.

rupee99

In answer to your heading it is very unlikely that should your mother resign because of the circumstances described that any Tribunal would classify it as constructive dismissal and even if, in the very slight chance, they did at best you could hope for an award equivelent to statutory redundancy payments.