What to pay

maggied_2

Just wanted some opinion on this.

As some of you will know OH has applied to court for PR and a CO due to 'difficulties' with his X. (New date for next week by the way).

Anyway, he has applied for half of the school holidays as part of the CO. X is saying he will only get this if he pays for childcare during the times we have her.

OH pays his maintenance (and she actually gets more than she would if she went through the CSA) and also for extras - some out of school activities and also things like clothes which X doesn't provide.

Also X gets 80% of her childcare paid for which we wouldn't. Also she's in receipt of CB, WTC etc.

Is it reasonable for her to expect OH to pay this as well?

karenx

Right so if its the school holidays and you want to have the daughter why would you be putting her into childcare??? Surly you would want her so you can spend time with her and do things.

shell_542

Do you have a solicitor? What is the legal stance on this?

If she wants him to pay child care fees I would reduce the maintenance to how much the CSA say with nights taken into account (explaining he cannot afford the current maintenance, extras PLUS the child care fees.)

I would also want to see a copy of her child tax credits assessment form as evidence that she is not claiming the childcare element of working tax credits for the childcare fees he is paying himself.

shell_542

karenx wrote: »

Right so if its the school holidays and you want to have the daughter why would you be putting her into childcare??? Surly you would want her so you can spend time with her and do things.

Because NRP's work too perhaps? Why are PWC's allowed to put a child in childcare to work or even for a break, if a NRP is not allowed to? This isn't just a day in the week, it is half of the school holidays. Some parents might not be able to get that many days off of work to look after the kids.

Plus, she might be in a childcare facility where you still have to pay for the fees of the childcare even if you are not using them.

maggied_2

Thanks Shell! We do both work full time so childcare would have to be an option. Blimey...NRP = bad guy every time eh? She gets approx 13 weeks holiday so if we have her for 6.5 of those weeks then unless we both take our holidays separately to look after her then we will have to use childcare, much as her mother does!! We do fully intend to use some of the time to do things with her....

This has been requested by the way as the X stopped us taking DSD on holiday in October which she'd said was fine in the first instance.

OH does have a solicitor although we can only really afford him for the first hearing - if it goes further than that then OH will be representing himself.

LizzieS_2

The solicitor is looking at this from the angle of what could happen with maintenance payments, ie your husband is well within his rights to pay only what the csa calculate. Naturally, not only will that be less than he is currently paying, it will also be reduced by 1/7 for each 52 nights per year.

I can see his point over the childcare. As it stands, the ex has a contract with the childcare provider. In reality that contract only has to cover the period that she needs childcare for. Your husband can have a contract for the period he needs childcare for, the court is likely to rule for the childs continuity that the provider must be the same one.

Putting both the above together, there is no guarantee that she will always get more than she could via the csa, and to boot she would be footing at least 20% of childcare costs for a period she is not responsible for their child.

Personally I wouldn't expect my ex to pay towards childcare costs for our children, so I would say both have to pay their own.

It is complicated though as your husband cannot claim childcare costs as there is already a tax credit claim there. From what you have said though, it appears even if he could claim, he wouldn't actually receive anything due to income.

I would knock the maintenance down to the correct level and offer 20% of the costs for the period your husband is responsible for his child as per CO (means payments could vary throughout the year). That way she can claim the remaining 80% from tax credits and she is not having to pay for childcare she is not using, so is not losing out due to costs she is not building up herself. There is a problem here with the contract being in her name as she is liable even if your husband did not pay - perhaps look at setting a maintenance order through the court to cover both parties?

Another alternative is childcare vouchers. Check out first if the childcare provider accepts them, and also if your employers have schemes. This could work out cheaper than paying 20% on tax credit side - it means working out the costs and benefits for both options (there are calculators on childcare voucher provider websites).

maggied_2

Thanks Lizzie.

Just to clarify - the solictor isn't looking at this yet - this is just something X has decided upon and conveyed via snotty text messages.

It needs some thought as e.g. in the summer hols I don't think we'd do a week on / week off. That's quite a long time for either parent not to see her so it would need to be a few days on / off but not so as to be too disruptive for DSD!

I think you're right though - adjusting her CM payments to the correct level (she may get a shock here - OH is a tradesman so not exactly been raking it in over the past couple of years) and then offering 20% of the cost when we're responsible for her.

It's not done entirely with childcare - DSD also goes to OH's mum and to X's gran and I work from home one day a week so could easily keep an eye on her for that day!

If OH suggests your idea she may back track quite quickly!

Blonde_Bint

But Maggied if you paid her only what the csa requires you to pay the extra that it would leave you with could go towards the childcare.


I know its hard for some to believe an NRP who isnt a bottomless pit of money:eek: shocking isnt it:p

Soubrette

My thoughts would be to go to the CSA after the court case.

I would also ask your solicitor if it would be possible to add a punitive clause to the access agreement so that if the PWC doesn't comply, then you go back to court and invoke the clause.

I would go back to the CSA afterwards purely because you have an agreed access plan and therefore accurately give the CSA the nights that your partner's daughter will be with you, you will therefore get a reduction in maintenance based on that access.

Even if you ask the CSA to calculate the amount due, you do not have to have them collect it. I would simply go back to the PWC and offer what the CSA deem is acceptable and be prepared to pay all costs while the child was with me or I would offer the increased maintenance but the PWC is still responsible for childcare.

Good luck, I'm a PWC and I think it's great you are both prepared to go all the way to court to fight for this little girl's right to have a relationship with both parents.

Sou

maggied_2

Thanks Soubrette - the part about the punitive clause is a good one - I'll get OH to speak to his sol. I'm so naive about all this - I would have thought the order would include one anyway - otherwise there's not much point in it.

Thanks for the good wishes - I personally think it's an absolute disgrace that we're having to go to court because some malicious little witch thinks it's ok to use her 8 year old daughter to control someone she can't let go of...<sigh>

With the money (and please, I can hear the collective groan from here) OH is worried that if he gives her what he actually should be (and seriously, it'll be about half what she gets now) she'll claim he hasn't been paying her - cos guess what? He was giving her cash for years:eek::eek: They had a book that they each used to sign but that went by the wayside (and which he no longer has). He's concerned that adjusting the payments now could actually cost him about 6.5 years worth of arrears..scary thought. And yes she is mental and vindictive enough to do it!

shell_542

Has she ever contacted the CSA in the past?