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How would you handle this?
AnxiousMum
Posts: 2,709 Forumite
My ex resides in Canada, our two sons live with me and my new partner with whom I have three further children.
When child support became an issue after my separation from my ex, his income went from about $120,000 CDN down to £36,000 CDN - he was a self employed landscaper, and I had evidence at the time of jobs that he had done totalling about $50,000 that year (alot of his work was referrals) that was cash in hand, with expenses going through the company. The following year he reported an income of $18,000 and the next year, he reported only $3,600 or something really silly. He was able to eat, provide a roof over his head, and pay what was then his allotted amount of $300 per month child support. Hmm, that was his total pay then for one year, however, this is what he offered the court that he could pay. My new partner was then laid off from his job, and was without work for two years - hence our move to the UK to obtain a job as a teacher. During the time my current partner was not working, we lived off of savings, retirement savings etc., for a period of two years. As you can imagine, with five children, this didn't take too long to go through savings. In the meantime, my children's father quit his business (though sure he did cash jobs on the side as he still had all equipment etc.) and went to school to obtain a psych nursing degree. He paid no child support during this three years, and the only way I could get him to pay child support was to prove his cash jobs, which I could've done, but would've resulted in me having to report him to Revenue Canada and showing all the proof that I had, which would've sent him to prison for tax evasion. I chose not to do this, as I could not explain this to my children. I figured that once he got his qualification and was working, he'd have a good wage and the children would be provided for.
The guidelines in Canada are VERY simple - you earn x number of dollars per month, you have x number of children, you pay x amount in child support. If as a couple, you had expected your children to do expensive extra curricular activities when you were together, the cost of this would also be divided amongst the parents. Same goes for university.
We came to an agreement about four years ago that he would pay $800 per month maintenance for our two children. This was based on his salary, and what the guidelines said. I never went for any extra curricular costs, and pay airfares back and forth to Canada in the summer and at Christmas for the boys.
Last December, he had another baby with his new partner. Since then, he sent child support as and when he felt like it. He stopped paying for the one son who was in University - but sent him his 'share' of the child support (difference of amounts between one and two children) - or so he agreed to. Turned out he only sent him a half of what the difference between what one and two children were - I've only just learnt this from my son. He has control of a trust fund which we set up together for the boys which was to be used for university education - he recently bought a house, and is refusing to send statements as required by law. He also recently inherited a large sum of money from an elderly aunt - however, I have a copy of the will and it says 'pay Mr. Anxiousmum and wife'......I am still legally his wife. He has never mentioned this to me, I obtained a copy of the will from the law courts who dealt with the estate to see what the amount was that was left to my two boys - this amount has apparently been added into their university fund accounts.
In April of this year, he advised he was unable to pay his child support, and this carried on for a few months. He has yet to come up with anything - despite requests to help out with various school trips for second eldest in his A levels - two of which were residentials in excess of £200 each and necessary for his coursework. This child is now applying to universities, has received some great offers and is trying to decide which university to choose as first choice. Part of his choice will be dependent upon funding. His father refuses to discuss his trust fund account, how much money will be made available when etc. Basically his only recourse is to take his father to court to get what is rightfully his. I'm not about to ask my child to take his parent to court.
In December I registered his arrears with the family maintenance enforcement program in Canada. Yesterday I received a form from them to fill out in regards to my eldest child. He is 20 years old, just left university, moving back home here on Friday, hasn't been eligible for JSA while unemployed but living down at university. He has run out of money, and is coming home for a swift kick up the rear end kind of assistance in getting work, and of course, to be able to eat and sleep somewhere! I don't have a problem with that - and would hope that with the support at home etc., he will have a job quite quickly doing something!
The paperwork however, is because there is no 'end date' on our maintenance agreement.
As it was expected that our children would go to university - they are saying they will continue to collect child support arrears for my eldest whilst he was at university, and until he is dependent. This also means that they will continue to enforce maintenance for my next child whilst he is at university - which will be 7 years more as he's hoping to go into medicine as a graduate.
Given the history - hiding income, having to have the court impute an income on him, his refusal to pay anything towards our sons after he has had another child, and his comment 'well the kids can move if I don't have to pay child support and I can get on with my life' (remember we moved to get work so that we could provide for all the children)......would you ask the maintenance enforcement people to still go for support through the university years?
If he was to converse about what funding from the trust fund would be available, we could evaluate whether or not it will be needed - but he won't discuss it - certainly not with me. But, if there is a shortfall, and he needs extra funding over student loans - it's myself and my partner that will be forking it all out, as the degree he's doing he won't be able to have the time to work part time. He is currently working 8 hours a week with an additional shift now and then and plans on working during school holidays (he's applying for jobs in Canada so he can still see his dad but earn money as well)
So.....should I let him know that this is the case? That would give him the chance to go to court there and file for a variation to add in an end date, or should I just let maintenance enforcement deal with him. With arrears for my second son, and difference in payments that should've been made to first son and what was actually made, at the moment he's looking at about $10,000 CDN in arrears. But in reality, through the years he's claimed no income or little income, and then recently not paying - I have no problem collecting this, as my three little guys have gone without things as my partner has ensured that the eldest boys have had what they needed when their father hasn't.
What would you do? Part of me wants to tell him, as it'll be ages before he gets a court date etc., and meanwhile arrears will be building, but the other part of me says 'tough.....you've become a deadbeat you'll get what's coming'.........so.....what would you do? Warn him or not?
(If I do warn him, the monthly amount on the guidelines has increased, so he will end up having to pay about an extra $250 per month currently until the 'end date'.....but don't really think he would get an end date other than 'when child is dependent' and as it's always been planned for them to go to university, cannot see the court denying child support while he's at uni.
Sometimes it's the NRP that drives us to being what appears to be 'money grubbing'......
When child support became an issue after my separation from my ex, his income went from about $120,000 CDN down to £36,000 CDN - he was a self employed landscaper, and I had evidence at the time of jobs that he had done totalling about $50,000 that year (alot of his work was referrals) that was cash in hand, with expenses going through the company. The following year he reported an income of $18,000 and the next year, he reported only $3,600 or something really silly. He was able to eat, provide a roof over his head, and pay what was then his allotted amount of $300 per month child support. Hmm, that was his total pay then for one year, however, this is what he offered the court that he could pay. My new partner was then laid off from his job, and was without work for two years - hence our move to the UK to obtain a job as a teacher. During the time my current partner was not working, we lived off of savings, retirement savings etc., for a period of two years. As you can imagine, with five children, this didn't take too long to go through savings. In the meantime, my children's father quit his business (though sure he did cash jobs on the side as he still had all equipment etc.) and went to school to obtain a psych nursing degree. He paid no child support during this three years, and the only way I could get him to pay child support was to prove his cash jobs, which I could've done, but would've resulted in me having to report him to Revenue Canada and showing all the proof that I had, which would've sent him to prison for tax evasion. I chose not to do this, as I could not explain this to my children. I figured that once he got his qualification and was working, he'd have a good wage and the children would be provided for.
The guidelines in Canada are VERY simple - you earn x number of dollars per month, you have x number of children, you pay x amount in child support. If as a couple, you had expected your children to do expensive extra curricular activities when you were together, the cost of this would also be divided amongst the parents. Same goes for university.
We came to an agreement about four years ago that he would pay $800 per month maintenance for our two children. This was based on his salary, and what the guidelines said. I never went for any extra curricular costs, and pay airfares back and forth to Canada in the summer and at Christmas for the boys.
Last December, he had another baby with his new partner. Since then, he sent child support as and when he felt like it. He stopped paying for the one son who was in University - but sent him his 'share' of the child support (difference of amounts between one and two children) - or so he agreed to. Turned out he only sent him a half of what the difference between what one and two children were - I've only just learnt this from my son. He has control of a trust fund which we set up together for the boys which was to be used for university education - he recently bought a house, and is refusing to send statements as required by law. He also recently inherited a large sum of money from an elderly aunt - however, I have a copy of the will and it says 'pay Mr. Anxiousmum and wife'......I am still legally his wife. He has never mentioned this to me, I obtained a copy of the will from the law courts who dealt with the estate to see what the amount was that was left to my two boys - this amount has apparently been added into their university fund accounts.
In April of this year, he advised he was unable to pay his child support, and this carried on for a few months. He has yet to come up with anything - despite requests to help out with various school trips for second eldest in his A levels - two of which were residentials in excess of £200 each and necessary for his coursework. This child is now applying to universities, has received some great offers and is trying to decide which university to choose as first choice. Part of his choice will be dependent upon funding. His father refuses to discuss his trust fund account, how much money will be made available when etc. Basically his only recourse is to take his father to court to get what is rightfully his. I'm not about to ask my child to take his parent to court.
In December I registered his arrears with the family maintenance enforcement program in Canada. Yesterday I received a form from them to fill out in regards to my eldest child. He is 20 years old, just left university, moving back home here on Friday, hasn't been eligible for JSA while unemployed but living down at university. He has run out of money, and is coming home for a swift kick up the rear end kind of assistance in getting work, and of course, to be able to eat and sleep somewhere! I don't have a problem with that - and would hope that with the support at home etc., he will have a job quite quickly doing something!
The paperwork however, is because there is no 'end date' on our maintenance agreement.
As it was expected that our children would go to university - they are saying they will continue to collect child support arrears for my eldest whilst he was at university, and until he is dependent. This also means that they will continue to enforce maintenance for my next child whilst he is at university - which will be 7 years more as he's hoping to go into medicine as a graduate.
Given the history - hiding income, having to have the court impute an income on him, his refusal to pay anything towards our sons after he has had another child, and his comment 'well the kids can move if I don't have to pay child support and I can get on with my life' (remember we moved to get work so that we could provide for all the children)......would you ask the maintenance enforcement people to still go for support through the university years?
If he was to converse about what funding from the trust fund would be available, we could evaluate whether or not it will be needed - but he won't discuss it - certainly not with me. But, if there is a shortfall, and he needs extra funding over student loans - it's myself and my partner that will be forking it all out, as the degree he's doing he won't be able to have the time to work part time. He is currently working 8 hours a week with an additional shift now and then and plans on working during school holidays (he's applying for jobs in Canada so he can still see his dad but earn money as well)
So.....should I let him know that this is the case? That would give him the chance to go to court there and file for a variation to add in an end date, or should I just let maintenance enforcement deal with him. With arrears for my second son, and difference in payments that should've been made to first son and what was actually made, at the moment he's looking at about $10,000 CDN in arrears. But in reality, through the years he's claimed no income or little income, and then recently not paying - I have no problem collecting this, as my three little guys have gone without things as my partner has ensured that the eldest boys have had what they needed when their father hasn't.
What would you do? Part of me wants to tell him, as it'll be ages before he gets a court date etc., and meanwhile arrears will be building, but the other part of me says 'tough.....you've become a deadbeat you'll get what's coming'.........so.....what would you do? Warn him or not?
(If I do warn him, the monthly amount on the guidelines has increased, so he will end up having to pay about an extra $250 per month currently until the 'end date'.....but don't really think he would get an end date other than 'when child is dependent' and as it's always been planned for them to go to university, cannot see the court denying child support while he's at uni.
Sometimes it's the NRP that drives us to being what appears to be 'money grubbing'......
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Comments
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I'm not sure what to make of it, the post is very very long, I just see it as 2 parties trying to do their best in life, one party has fallen at a hurdle temproraily and the other looks like he has landed on his feet.0
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LOL DUTR - yes, it is long, I could've said 'should I take my ex to the cleaners or not'......but without any background.......the obvious answer would be a resounding NO!0
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AnxiousMum wrote: »LOL DUTR - yes, it is long, I could've said 'should I take my ex to the cleaners or not'......but without any background.......the obvious answer would be a resounding NO!
tee hee, it depends who answers 1st really, I understand there are lots of individual cases , some warrant chasing and some do not, sometimes the cases where pwc's are getting some contribution seem to get greater support to squeeze the !!!!!! until he wishes he had remained a virgin, then there are the cases where the pwc gets nothing, I do hope it all gets resolved in an end where all parties are in agreement and content :beer:0 -
hehe, I could be a total bag and go for half the inheritance that was left to 'mr. anxiousmum and wife'.......that alone would net me $125,000 Cdn......but it was his aunt, not mine, and I couldn't seriously go through with going for that. Can't deal with people fighting over deceased family members money
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Just received a lovely email from him ....... no more hesitation......to the cleaners we go 0
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Must have been some email:D
dont keep us in suspenders:rotfl:
btw we are unshockable in this joint I could tell you things that would make your hair curl:p
and good luck with your cleaning, choose a good company, no cowboy jobs now:rotfl:0 -
haha, nothing sinister, just stated that I could rot in hell before he sent another penny in child support - they don't get child support from his step son's father, so why should he pay? Well, the same avenues are there for his partner to pursue her ex for child support - and because he's taken on somebody elses kid doesn't mean that his kids should go without. I may very well rot in hell, but not on his orders
Unfortunately his 'not paying another penny' won't hold water with maintenance enforcement - they're alot faster there than here so it seems, and if he still wants to have his boat for summer fishing.......then he'd be best to get it all caught up now else he'll have to rent a boat.0 -
Hi Anxiousmum - I would have said after reading your OP to 'not tell him'. It isn't your responsibility.
Also, I can't understand why you shouldn't persue the Aunties will - if you are still legally Mrs Anxiousmum - the money should legally go to you. ARe you going to persue it? If you did - that would go a long way to helping your sons university funds.
I HATE deadbeat dads, I don't think he deserves a second thought from you.
Take him to the cleaners! I too have been told that I could 'rot in hell' by my ex - what a nasty and vindictive thing to say to another human being. When someone says that to you, it clearly shows they are deeply bitter and greedy, not to mention selfish. Arn't you glad you aren't with him and have moved on? He sounds like me ex! Keep us posted!0 -
AnxiousMum wrote: »haha, nothing sinister, just stated that I could rot in hell before he sent another penny in child support - they don't get child support from his step son's father, so why should he pay? Well, the same avenues are there for his partner to pursue her ex for child support - and because he's taken on somebody elses kid doesn't mean that his kids should go without. I may very well rot in hell, but not on his orders
Unfortunately his 'not paying another penny' won't hold water with maintenance enforcement - they're alot faster there than here so it seems, and if he still wants to have his boat for summer fishing.......then he'd be best to get it all caught up now else he'll have to rent a boat.
:mad: i agree with playinghardball, theres no need for name calling. ever. its not necessary and its definately not helpful.
What ever you do, for me you do with a clear concience:)0 -
Thanks guys I hate the 'get them for what you can' attitude that so many think PWC's have, and certainly haven't wanted to be in that category - just going for what is court ordered, not paid, and the fact he'll have a huge arrears is nobody's problem but his own. Again with uni - if he would communicate and come good on his word with regards to my children's trust funds - then there'd be no need to enforce payments from him during that time.
I have indicated to him that communication would be good, but in the meantime we shall have to plan on just the support from myself and my partner as well as child support to get him through the next 7 years. This gives him the heads up at least, and he can go and apply for a variation if he really feels the need. However, he'll then be hit up with the increased payments according to the new guideline amounts put in place in Canada - and it will be retro for three years, as he was advised that time ago, that when I had the spare cash I would be applying here (at a cost to me) or he could deal with it there for free and get it done with. His choice again....Canadian law allows you to backdate 3 years as long as you have informed the payor that you intend on doing so. The guideline amounts payable changed, and his salary has increased too - so will be quite a difference.
Still not feeling right on the inheritance though - I have alot of respect for the Aunt that passed away, and it's my respect for her and the thought of fightiing over 'her' money that I don't like. Maybe time shall take care of that.....and his response to any maintenance enforcement 0
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