help! staff driving me mad

julie8314dave

Hi!
We have a cafe/tearoom/sandwich bar business. we took this over nearly two years ago. staff stayed with us, although one has left now due to family problems, lucky for us with the recession. even though we did not want her to leave.

However we have 4 other staff, three are very good, one exceptional. The one in question has been there for 5 years with the previous owners,(2 with us)

she is very lazy, makes lots of cost effective mistakes, and sometimes can be quite rude. she only thinks of herself does not offer to help other staff members out at all.

We have told her on numerous occasions that we are not happy about her work, her washing up is disgusting, she says it is not her. then goes into the sulks,

we have to tell her all the time to stop talking for to long to the customers, as other customers are waiting then she will get there order wrong, the list goes on and on.

She is very good with the older customers i.e she has known them for a long time probably but deep down they all know what she is like?

My question is what do we do? we are fed up pulling her to one side and discussing it, we have told her we will have to cut her hours to pay for the mistakes she has made, but she gets argumentive and starts throwing plates etc into the sink hence breakages.

We are a small, freindly business, but new to employing staff, we have spoken to business link who just tell us to pull her to one side, which we have already done.

Any ideas anyone please.:mad:

stingy_rach

Have you made a record of all these 'chats'. If not then you need to start. If you want her to go you need to go down a formal disciplinary route as nothing she has done so far will count as gross misconduct.

Record all incidents and every time you need to speak to her then have a witness and make a note of what is said. This way you can proceed to formal warnings and then dismissal.

What does her contract say or does she not have a contract?

If you are not sure about what constitutes a formal disciplinary process then get some advice - direct gov web should help.

Whatever you do do NOT snap and just get rid of her as she could easily claim unfair dismissal and most cases where the formal process has been breached end up with compensation paid to the former employee and this could be expensive.

jobbingmusician

I'm afraid you have to grind through a full disciplinary procedure, step by step. It will take time, but you have to go through each stage, giving her a list of what she has done wrong and giving her time to improve.

If you don't have a disciplinary procedure, you can knock one together very quickly by adapting a lot of text from here http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1041
Other model procedures may be available on the net, but they should meet the ACAS standards.

You can start immediately with a verbal warning (which should be recorded on file) by the sound of things. Make sure you make specific reference to 'throwing plates etc into the sink' - in fact, you might be able to speed things up by including 'behaviour likely to endanger the health and safety of other staff' in gross misconduct, then you could dismiss her on the spot if she does this again.

The important thing to protect yourselves against losing* an employment tribunal is that you have to demonstrate that you behave throughout as a reasonable employer. If you have a good disc proc and follow it, and can demonstrate that you would use it in the same way for all employees then you should be safe.

Keep in mind throughout that a disc proc is supposed to help employees improve to the standard required. What you are doing at each stage is to set her clear targets and help her to reach them. No, I don't think it's going to work either, although you might just see a dramatic improvement after her first disciplinary. Do make it clear to her that throwing plates around is totally unacceptable and might lead to her being sacked (as it endangers other people).

And oo yes, stingyrach is right - keep a log of all incidents!

Good luck!

*I have said 'protect yourselves against losing an employment tribunal' because I don't think anything protects people against being TAKEN to tribunal, nowadays!

stingy_rach

Another thing to consider: Do you have training records for your staff? If not then start. Something simple is fine and this way her expensive mistakes can work against her.

i.e. Spend an hour training her on the till. Write down what you have gone through and ask her to sign to confirm this has happened. This way next time she makes a costly mistake you can say she has been trained correctly and therefore she cannot argue she didn't know.

rupee99

jobbingmusician wrote: »

I'm afraid you have to grind through a full disciplinary procedure, step by step. It will take time, but you have to go through each stage, giving her a list of what she has done wrong and giving her time to improve.

If you don't have a disciplinary procedure, you can knock one together very quickly by adapting a lot of text from here http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1041
Other model procedures may be available on the net, but they should meet the ACAS standards.

You can start immediately with a verbal warning (which should be recorded on file) by the sound of things. Make sure you make specific reference to 'throwing plates etc into the sink' - in fact, you might be able to speed things up by including 'behaviour likely to endanger the health and safety of other staff' in gross misconduct, then you could dismiss her on the spot if she does this again.

The important thing to protect yourselves against losing* an employment tribunal is that you have to demonstrate that you behave throughout as a reasonable employer. If you have a good disc proc and follow it, and can demonstrate that you would use it in the same way for all employees then you should be safe.

Keep in mind throughout that a disc proc is supposed to help employees improve to the standard required. What you are doing at each stage is to set her clear targets and help her to reach them. No, I don't think it's going to work either, although you might just see a dramatic improvement after her first disciplinary. Do make it clear to her that throwing plates around is totally unacceptable and might lead to her being sacked (as it endangers other people).

And oo yes, stingyrach is right - keep a log of all incidents!

Good luck!

*I have said 'protect yourselves against losing an employment tribunal' because I don't think anything protects people against being TAKEN to tribunal, nowadays!

Do everything that Jobbingmusician suggests, especially the bit about following at least ACAS guidelines.

You may be able to speed things up by entering into a "Compromise Agreement" although this will cost you at least some money in compensation plus legal fees. This would be binding on the employee and she would not be able to go to an Employment Tribunal afterwards provided the proper procedure had been followed. It would involve you dismissing her, paying a sum of money, to cover anything actually owed (Arrears of wages, holiday pay, pay in lieu of notice (min 5 weeks) and an element of compensation) and she would have to agree that it was in full and final settlement and not to pursue the matter any further. You would also have to be satisfied that she has had proper legal advice, which usually means that you have to pay for her to go to a solicitor.

The procedure does cost something but probably much less than keeping her on whilst damaging your business or ignoring the disciplinary rules and being taken to an Employment Tribunal later for unfair dismissal.

Welcome to the reality of employing people - sorry!

julie8314dave

[Rightly or wrongly, these staff do not have a contract of employment with us, they are just casual staff, working 11-12 hours a week, 15hrs a week, and 10 hrs a week,

but the staff in question works the longest hours, i think that by cutting her hours and giving more to the others would build up a resentment, although the other staff feel the same as us.

QUOTE=julie8314dave;discussion/2226033]Hi!
We have a cafe/tearoom/sandwich bar business. we took this over nearly two years ago. staff stayed with us, although one has left now due to family problems, lucky for us with the recession. even though we did not want her to leave.

However we have 4 other staff, three are very good, one exceptional. The one in question has been there for 5 years with the previous owners,(2 with us)

she is very lazy, makes lots of cost effective mistakes, and sometimes can be quite rude. she only thinks of herself does not offer to help other staff members out at all.

We have told her on numerous occasions that we are not happy about her work, her washing up is disgusting, she says it is not her. then goes into the sulks,

we have to tell her all the time to stop talking for to long to the customers, as other customers are waiting then she will get there order wrong, the list goes on and on.

She is very good with the older customers i.e she has known them for a long time probably but deep down they all know what she is like?

My question is what do we do? we are fed up pulling her to one side and discussing it, we have told her we will have to cut her hours to pay for the mistakes she has made, but she gets argumentive and starts throwing plates etc into the sink hence breakages.

We are a small, freindly business, but new to employing staff, we have spoken to business link who just tell us to pull her to one side, which we have already done.

Any ideas anyone please.:mad:[/QUOTE]

Zazen999

julie8314dave wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly, these staff do not have a contract of employment with us, they are just casual staff, working 11-12 hours a week, 15hrs a week, and 10 hrs a week,

I am afraid that you are doing yourself no favours here; they need a contract if they are doing work for you - irrelevant of the hours.

Advice:
a - get contracts in place [you should have done this within the first 3 months]
b - get a disciplinary and grievance procedure in place
c - start the disciplinary procedure at the level you feel it demands - I'd start with a written warning and follow it to the letter.

Have you considered taking a management course; there seems to be some proper management missing here.

Snakeeyes21

Zazen999 wrote: »

I am afraid that you are doing yourself no favours here; they need a contract if they are doing work for you - irrelevant of the hours.

Advice:
a - get contracts in place [you should have done this within the first 3 months]
b - get a disciplinary and grievance procedure in place
c - start the disciplinary procedure at the level you feel it demands - I'd start with a written warning and follow it to the letter.

Have you considered taking a management course; there seems to be some proper management missing here.

Have you not worked in the catering industry before?

People lower in the chain are often hired with a handshake and a nod.

But I completely agree with getting contracts in place, and make them for zero hours, which is often the case in catering and retail, it covers your back in slow periods.

Zazen999

Snakeeyes21 wrote: »

Have you not worked in the catering industry before?

People lower in the chain are often hired with a handshake and a nod.

But I completely agree with getting contracts in place, and make them for zero hours, which is often the case in catering and retail, it covers your back in slow periods.

Luckily no.

Unfortunately, employers who don't get contracts in place end up having no leg to stand on when trying to get rid of staff if they don't cover their backs; no matter what industry they are in.

wontfallforit

Snakeeyes21 wrote: »

Have you not worked in the catering industry before?

People lower in the chain are often hired with a handshake and a nod.

But I completely agree with getting contracts in place, and make them for zero hours, which is often the case in catering and retail, it covers your back in slow periods.

I worked in a small, family-run food/catering setting, and although I was recruited in the way you mention above (:)), everything else was done to the letter. Proper written contracts, comprehensive disciplinary process, etc.

Not sure about those zero hour contracts...I appreciate that the OP has a business to run, but nothing would whip your staff into a frenzy like the introduction of zero-hour contracts. Changes to hours in my similar role (and we were not on zero-hr contracts) caused untold tension and headaches, and staff morale plummeted, as it seemed like our jobs were at risk all the time. I was lucky, being the only member of staff who could afford to drop hours (at a push), but everyone else had kids to feed and mortgages to pay, and depended upon a steady stream of regular hours that fitted around the kids, and most importantly kept up their eligibility for the likes of child tax credits.

One thing our company used to do was take on a number of permanent staff with contracts specifying a reasonable amount of hours, and take on casual staff - usually students - to cover the busier periods.

The other decent staff that the OP has shouldn't suffer because of the problems with this particular staff member. OP needs to be a lot stricter with her - assuming legal guidelines, etc. - as it sounds like she's had too many chances so far.

ohreally

Snakeeyes21 wrote: »

I completely agree with getting contracts in place, and make them for zero hours

This is an utterly despicable practise and no employer with a shred of moral or ethical decency would impose this on their staff. This is perhaps a reason why this type of employer will ultimately end up with the type of staff which they don't particularly wish to attract into their business.