MSE News: Mortgage blow as building society hikes SVR

sarahbennett

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

I'm afraid that "excellent article" and "Daily Mail" don't often belong in the same sentence. Cutter was appointed deputy CEO of Skipton in August 2008, and then CEO of Skipton on 1 January 2009 as far as I am aware. So comparing his salary in 2009 with his 2008 salary when he was not CEO (and not even deputy CEO before August), it is scarcely surprising that he had an increase. D'oh!

This point is not missed in the article. Indeed the author specifically states it. Doh!

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Skipton is a vastly more complex business than Yorkshire, which they compare his earnings with the CEO of.

And? Open heart surgery is vastly more tricky and complex than both, but I happen to know the man who invented it is getting paid less. It does not follow that those doing harder and more complicated work need to or do get paid more, unless you are suggesting that kicking a ball around a foot pitch is vastly more complicated than aerospace engineering... It just does not follow. The article was merely making the point that despite the Society having to make cuts, Cutter clearly doesn't. And in the context of similarly paid, similarly positioned CEOs getting salary decreases and backtracking on his promise, a pay hold would have been more acceptable

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

And criticising a CEO for having a holiday with his family - please! They'll be complaining that he lets his children eat, next. Childish comments.

He's made some very good points if you read the article...one of which concerns the fact that Skipton's SVR is qualitatively different from all the other lenders.

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

SVRs are normally entirely variable, entirely at the discretion of the lender, and for no reason at all. I am completely convinced - and I'm sure that you will concur - that SVR wording would not be acceptable under Unfair Contract Terms regulations if it were not that almost all lenders have operated in that way for their entire lives and it would not be reasonable for those pre-existing terms to be declared illegal via the Unfair Contract Terms legislation. But we could digress forever on that topic.

They're normally at the lender's discretion, this one was not. A point the author also makes. I'm not sure why you think that an ordinary SVR is likely to be unacceptable or unfair, would you please explain?

MarkyMarkD

sarahbennett wrote: »

This point is not missed in the article. Indeed the author specifically states it. Doh!

I know they quote it - d'oh - but it then means that referring to his salary as an increase is illogical. Just jealousy speaking, like most comments about banking salaries.

And? Open heart surgery is vastly more tricky and complex than both, but I happen to know the man who invented it is getting paid less. It does not follow that those doing harder and more complicated work need to or do get paid more, unless you are suggesting that kicking a ball around a foot pitch is vastly more complicated than aerospace engineering... It just does not follow. The article was merely making the point that despite the Society having to make cuts, Cutter clearly doesn't. And in the context of similarly paid, similarly positioned CEOs getting salary decreases and backtracking on his promise, a pay hold would have been more acceptable

He's doing a different job from what he was doing in 2008. Nobody's saying he's had a pay rise SINCE being made CEO - he probably hasn't. What world do you live in, where people get a significant promotion and keep the same salary? And, indeed, which world do employees get a reduction in their basic salary, because "times are hard"? Virtually none.

He's made some very good points if you read the article...one of which concerns the fact that Skipton's SVR is qualitatively different from all the other lenders.

They're normally at the lender's discretion, this one was not. A point the author also makes. I'm not sure why you think that an ordinary SVR is likely to be unacceptable or unfair, would you please explain?

Because it gives the lender the right to vary a material term totally at its own discretion, with the only remedy available to a borrower who does not like it to redeem. And if it's a discounted product, it's likely that even redemption isn't available without an early repayment charge; for those which don't have an early repayment charge, redemption is still a costly business because of legal costs etc.

Dan_1976

MarkyMArkD you are entering the world of the Daily Mail reader! The Banks employed murdering scum and pay them ££££'s to spread evil around the world!

The Mail is a pile of scare mongering rubbish, in fact I would say the Sun is a better paper, at least it admits its a red top tabloid! Give it a few years and the mail will have a page 3 girl and a red block white writing logo!

Skipton is a very big company and if I was head of it I would want plenty in return!!

The_Dentist

This is guarantee rip up day.

I suspect most people pay by direct debit and an increased amount (from last months payment) will be debited direct from current accounts over the coming days.

I would suggest to everyone that once this payment is taken they make it clear to Skipton that they are paying under protest. If you don't complain and take no action I would think that if you later make a complaint the counter argument will be that you tacitly accepted the revised SVR at an earlier date as you started paying the higher amount and have done so ever since without complaint.

Maybe something like,

"I note that the Skipton Building Society has on [XX] March 2010 taken £[XXX] from my current account. I don't accept that I am due to make a mortgage payment in excess of a rate calculated by adding three percentage points to the Bank of England base rate either in this month or in future months. For the avoidance of doubt I am making this payment and future payments under protest. I reserve the right to take whatever legal action I see fit to prevent the Society charging this new SVR and to recover my contractual and other losses as a result of the Society's breach of contract."

Just a suggestion.

Has anyone been brave enough to cancel their direct debit full stop? It would be an interesting strategy.

JPS29

Dan_1976 wrote: »

in fact I would say the Sun is a better paper, at least it admits its a red top tabloid!

Really dont want to take this OT but just google the sun, the truth....

Then you may think twice about branding that piece of sh1te a better paper

Dan_1976

Thats a bit deep, face value its a better paper. I admit it has done some silly things, but it is the most brought paper in the uk I think. I dont want to get in to what I think your talking about, I dont think this is the correct forum!

I dont read it before you start on me!

sarahbennett

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

He's doing a different job from what he was doing in 2008. Nobody's saying he's had a pay rise SINCE being made CEO - he probably hasn't. What world do you live in, where people get a significant promotion and keep the same salary? And, indeed, which world do employees get a reduction in their basic salary, because "times are hard"?

The real world in a recession. I accept your point that at the very least a nominal increase normally accompanies a promotion, but would not call 60,000 a nominal increase... I personally think it's an article that makes some good points, but I do take your points about it as well, and I think we can all agree that discussing the relative virtues of the different papers would take this thread off on a complete tangent, that I regret having started!

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Because it gives the lender the right to vary a material term totally at its own discretion, with the only remedy available to a borrower who does not like it to redeem. And if it's a discounted product, it's likely that even redemption isn't available without an early repayment charge; for those which don't have an early repayment charge, redemption is still a costly business because of legal costs etc.

It does depend on what it says in the terms of the SVR, simply calling a contract an SVR does not itself create any implicit terms.

sarahbennett

The_Dentist wrote: »

Maybe something like, "I note that the Skipton Building Society has on [XX] March 2010 taken £[XXX] from my current account. I don't accept that I am due to make a mortgage payment in excess of a rate calculated by adding three percentage points to the Bank of England base rate either in this month or in future months. For the avoidance of doubt I am making this payment and future payments under protest. I reserve the right to take whatever legal action I see fit to prevent the Society charging this new SVR and to recover my contractual and other losses as a result of the Society's breach of contract."

This is very helpful thank you. If you have a buy-to-let, second charge or residential mortgage with the Skipton you should be aware of the various group applications/actions that are being prepared in case you would like to join one of the groups. Please contact me asap about this, complaints may have more power if they are made by more than one party.

Andy_Davies

Charterhouse wrote: »

Rates of 0.5% for a sustained period ARE exceptional, it's only a matter of whether the contract gives enough leeway or indeed the exit clause was given in the KFI.

But is a rate of 0.5% exception and until we can look back at it from an historical basis how do we know?

Take the Bank of England base rate, for most of the 70s/80s it was up over 10% it was only in the early 90s it started to stay around 6% or lower.

In that situation what's the exception - the fact is was over 10% for 20 odd years or the six percent or under it's been since.

Japan's base rate has been under 1% for 15 years, is that the exception or the norm now?

Dan_1976

I think one of the problems with the exeptional circumstances is that it the banks, finance houses and BS's have pretty much put them in it.

If world war 3 broke out and at the end of it we had economic melt down (Obv WW3 in this theory is nuke free) I think less complaints would be heard.