Job advice.... possible dismissal

City_Girl_2

My 21 year old brother is a qualified Gardener although is employed as a mulit-operative to cover his employer for him basically to do "anything and everything" in the winter months which is not a problem my brother is a grafter and his work, and more, gets done and done well. He has worked there for over 3 years.

Early Dec 09 he was placed with two other men and sent out to do a job when they came across some scrap and they went off their patch, so to speak, to weigh it in for money which was to be divided between the three of them. My brother was not the driver of the waggon at the time. They were caught for this. The following day the other two men were again caught doing similar.... all three were suspended.

My brother went to the Dr's and got a sick note for stress as he believed that he was going to be sacked and wanted to make sure that he was paid in Dec, although this backfired on him as when his wage was due on the 15th Dec they only paid him half and when he contacted them they said that this was due to him exceeding his sick leave after an eye operation earlier in the year when he had around 6 weeks off. He was due to go into work for a meeting on the 23rd Dec, although he never heard from them and had to ring them to find things out, although they say they sent him letters about the meeting and his money!

In the meantime the other two men have been sacked. One was on probation and always in trouble and the other, who has appealed the decision, is lazy and his character references from colleagues did not help him in this respect.

My brother is now to attend his meeting this Tuesday and is aware that they have obtained character references about him too.

Is it a dead cert that he will be sacked as the other two men have been, but bearing on mind that they were caught again doing similar the very next day.

So, eventaully, what do you think his chances are of keeping his job and can they mess about with his money/wages like they have done ?

Sorry for the long waffle but my brother is pretty depressed and worried about Tuesday. He is in a Union and taking a rep with him, but he doesn't have much faith to be honest.


Thanks in advance
CITY

ckerrd

What was the reason for the sacking?
Leaving the job without permission?

If this is a first offence for your brother he may get off with a warning. The other guy you mentioned may already have been on a warning so sacking was the only option

It is not guaranteed he will be sacked.
What does his Union rep think?

City_Girl_2

Hi, thanks for your reply.

My brother is not sure what the reasons for the other mans sacking were given as as he is not allowed to speak with anyone from work but from the paper work he as he believes that it is for leaving the job without permission. This man has a pretty bad record at work but nothing outstanding at the moment, they are all spent so to speak. But his character references didn't help as he is bone idle and was carried by others.

My brother has also had a warning in the past, now also spent, and for something totally unrelated (a water bombing incident - boys will be boys) and recently was spoken to by his boss as he refused to pick up needles in a well known drug users area !!!

His Union have said to him, off the record, to look elsewhere...... totally useless - great advice !!!

He is going to ring ACAS tomorrow to ask their advice too but do you think that it is likely for them to sack 2 out of 3 people ?

Many thanks for your time

CITY

rupee99

If your brother and colleagues went "off patch so to speak" and used company assets for their own, probably illegal, purposes (they would not be entitled to collect and sell scrap without the owner of that scrap's permission) he maybe "charged" with gross misconduct.

Given that he has probably told you things to reflect the best possible circumstances (people tend not to fully divulge the full extent of their misdemeanours) I cannot say that the prospects for keeping his job are that good given that he has admitted, to you at least, that he did it.

Vader123

From what you have said :

1) 2 suspensions
2) Poor attendance record (sickness related)

I can't see how he can keep his job.

a water bombing incident - boys will be boys)

Employers will be employers.

Vader

Savvy_Sue

His best 'defence' as it were might be to grovel, to admit that he realised that he shouldn't have done it, he seriously regrets it, and he will never do it again.

He might try "they led me astray" but I'm not sure of that, unless he's a lot younger than them, but as one of them was on probation then your brother shouldn't claim that he didn't know any better.

Might depend on his character references, tbh.

Does the employer provide suitable protective equipment for picking up needles? If not, then he shouldn't be doing it, until it IS provided.

RobertoMoir

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

His best 'defence' as it were might be to grovel, to admit that he realised that he shouldn't have done it, he seriously regrets it, and he will never do it again.

He might try "they led me astray" but I'm not sure of that, unless he's a lot younger than them, but as one of them was on probation then your brother shouldn't claim that he didn't know any better.

Might depend on his character references, tbh.

Does the employer provide suitable protective equipment for picking up needles? If not, then he shouldn't be doing it, until it IS provided.

I'd agree with all of this. Especially the "astray" bit - he should stay away from that unless a) it's true and b) there's a very good reason why admitting it won't make him look like a weak fool. Can't think of a reason myself but who knows. I'd suggest making a full apology, being contrite and promising to work hard to redeem himself in their eyes if he is given another chance is the best approach here.

ceridwen

So he took part in theft - and wants help?

Zazen999

I'd have to ask what his role in the theft was. If he didn't leave the van, told them he wasn't having anything to do with it and reported it to his manager when he got back then he is in the clear. If he got stuck in and took a cut of the cash, then he is out the door.