We need a 200% tax!

StevieJ

SLITHER99 wrote: »

Anyways, just for the record, Nissan and Renault are the same company. So buying either only improves the French economy.

That seems a little contradictory after you wrting about exported jobs, the Nissan factory is creating employment in Sunderland not Paris.

Radiantsoul

SLITHER99 wrote: »

OK the tax idea probably doesn't work admitedly, but nothing wrong with thinking outside the box... an idea for progression is still an idea, right? I don't mind you saying it's a bad idea as you've said why so all good! So, improve it.

The problem is that protectionism is something of an intellectual dead end. People have tried to improve it for several centuries.

There are some circumstances where it might make one group richer, often when analysed using something called game theory. But this requires a world with few players and will generally only apply in large monopoly type industries, and even then not in every case.

Another argument is that protectionism willl lead to less income inequality, albeit with lower incomes. However in practice you could merely have free markets raise income taxes and redistribute via the benefit system.

Radiantsoul

Harry_Powell wrote: »

I must admit that I am seriously considering whether to keep on contributing to this particular forum, indeed the amount of time I spend in here has diminished dramatically.

There seems to have been an influx of people with the mentality of 6 year olds. Yesterday I was contributing to a thread where one person reckoned a law should be put into place to reposess houses if a person missed a single mortgage payment, another bloke was argusing that everyone should be given a quarter of an acre of land to build a house on if they pay National Insurance for 5 years.

The quality of the debate has gone downhill in a shocking way, and it leads one to wonder what's the point of discussing anything with people with such diminished mental capacity.

I agree.
There seems to be a lot of slag/chav bashing. Talk of benefit scroungers, immigrant job steelers, Gordon "Clown", mad muslims, etc. None of which necessarily have much to do with economics. It is all ad hominem and little real structured debate. And then we have the same graphs or point of views being reprinted endlessly without any refinement or new comments.
I don't think this thread is too bad.

John_Pierpoint

SLITHER99 wrote: »

LOL. I have to admit I'm no economist and it was only a top-down idea. I work in the electronics industry myself and it is a cut throat market right now. Most companies I've contracted for all tell the same story of nobody buying their products and most people get laid off as the same job cab be done cheaper overseas. Maybe we should be heavily taxing outsourcing instead? One company I presently work for (about to not anymore) recently opened a large assembly and packing hub, 600 staff strong. They didn't even bother looking for UK workers, all of them are polish imports! Not a single advert went out for UK staff members. Surely that's not right!?

There is a reason we need low level industrial workers. For example, everyone needs shoes and there used to be a lot more factories here. I know, my auntie worked for a major manufacturer and, although not the best paid job, she loved it and was heartbroken when they closed up shop in favour of overseas production. Plus it's better people who don't have the qualifications for a high ranking industry jobs to be doing low level jobs instead of being on the dole, right? Not everyone gets to be an astronaught!

OK the tax idea probably doesn't work admitedly, but nothing wrong with thinking outside the box... an idea for progression is still an idea, right? I don't mind you saying it's a bad idea as you've said why so all good! So, improve it.

Anyways, just for the record, Nissan and Renault are the same company. So buying either only improves the French economy.

I used to be part of the UK shoe industry, trading in a leather substitute based in Leicester (That job got exported to East Germany (DDR) and I slid sideways into trading in raw plastic resin, from there I studied to become part of the "new" IT industry; later combining my new IT skills with my shipping experience - eventually I became early retired after exporting my job to India.)

The point I want to make is that we are all citizens of the EU now and rapidly becoming citizens of a global market.
I got corrected on here the other day by a Pole who told me Poland now has a minimum wage of 2 - 3 quid per hour.
The going rate for making shoes in (say) Vietnam is probably less than 50 p per hour.
If some of our 6 - 7 billion fellow world citizens are "happy" to work for such rates, who are we to set up trade barriers and starve them.

I do wish that some of our growing band of NEET's would realise that places like India & China are churning out graduates by the thousands every year. If they ever want a job and a better than breadline life, their mum needs to wake them up and get them to smell the coffee of competing for a living.

Generali

Th UK doesn't make anything anymore, right?

I think it's a myth to say that the UK doesn't make anything any more. If you look at UK Stats Agency series BOKG(link) (exports of goods in £ millions) and BQKU(can't find a link) (Volume of Exports) I think you'll find that up until the start of the massive worldwide recession the UK produced the largest amount of exports ever, both by value and by volume. The UK is a massive exporter of cars, chemicals and machine tools.

The thing is that the UK imports more than she exports. Is this necessarily a problem?

Not necessarily IMO. The UK having a current account deficit (often incorrectly called a balance of trade deficit) means that British people are enjoying a higher standard of living than they could produce for themselves. It's not sustainable forever (AIUI anyway) but there is no reason to think that this is somehow equivalent to a person living beyond their means by borrowing so this deficit will have to be repaid one day. It's more like having a nice lifestyle because of a generous sugar daddy.

Bear in mind that since 1973, there have only been 5 years with a current account (trade) surplus and the UK hasn't fallen into the Atlantic yet. Perhaps surprisingly, 4 of those surplus years were 1980-1983 under Mrs Thatcher (series AA6H (link))

Mr_Mumble wrote: »

Generali, it's David Ricardo (one "c")!

As my three year old says, "I knoooow". [doh!]

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

Th UK doesn't make anything anymore, right?

I think it's a myth to say that the UK doesn't make anything any more. If you look at UK Stats Agency series BOKG(link) (exports of goods in £ millions) and BQKU(can't find a link) (Volume of Exports) I think you'll find that up until the start of the massive worldwide recession the UK produced the largest amount of exports ever, both by value and by volume. The UK is a massive exporter of cars, chemicals and machine tools.

I think that this is a great thing for our economy.

But, it's not a reason to become complacent.

There has been a clear trend to manufacture things in low-wage economies. Originally this was low end goods. It is moving to higher end goods.

I noticed over Christmas the purchase of Volvo and Saab technology by the Chinese companies (Geely was one).

They wouldn't spend over a billion unless they saw it as a significant growth opportunity.

It's entirely possible that the car manufacturing landscape will change a lot over this decade.

It's about how adaptive we are to these changes. I've had to adapt and evolve what I do to earn a living; I dont expect this to change.

John_Pierpoint

Stuff that counts as exports from our little island isn't well counted (the statistics show that the globe is running a deficit with the rest of the galaxy). Much of the so called exports are just stumbling over our borders because we are an integrated part of the united States of Europe.

John_Pierpoint

Generali wrote: »

It's not sustainable forever (AIUI anyway) but there is no reason to think that this is somehow equivalent to a person living beyond their means by borrowing so this deficit will have to be repaid one day. It's more like having a nice lifestyle because of a generous sugar daddy.

Bear in mind that since 1973, there have only been 5 years with a current account (trade) surplus and the UK hasn't fallen into the Atlantic yet. Perhaps surprisingly, 4 of those surplus years were 1980-1983 under Mrs Thatcher (series AA6H (link))

I clearly remember 1980 - I was working in Switzerland and the pound went up in value so fast that living in Switzerland was cheap!!!
It was a little to do with MT's rhetoric and much more to do with North Sea Oil & gas.
Well we have wasted away that natural legacy, which won't come again.

At the moment we seem to have exactly the opposite conditions and I expect "the gnomes of Zurich" agree with me.